Solution to impregnable defence meta | Forums

[Joe_Coyote]

Got some ideas on fixing stare games happening in duels. Post your own thoughts whether you agree or not.

a) Make blocking cost stamina

b) Make blocks pass more damage, like 15-25%

c) Make them limited: allowing to block only 3-4 attacks every 10 seconds. If block is broken, it recharges faster, lets say in 3 seconds? Player still can parry

d) Remove feature to feint missing parry. Players should have only 1 attempt, which must be punished if done wrong.

e) Increase feinting window for heavy attacks. It's too obvious atm. Should be able to cancel later into swing.

[COS.Allonsey]

Wow, option C seems interesting but complicated

[Mr_Gallows]

I agree that the defence/offence balance is broken.

The main issue is that the speed difference between light and heavy attacks makes it impossible to balance blocking for both, using the current system.

Repost:

Block fix
The main problem is that light attacks are currently hard to block and heavy attacks are hard not to block. With the current system there is no way to fix this. There is an easy solution though.

Split the blocking into two states: Fast block and full block. As soon as you hit the block direction you are in fast block which will block light attacks. After a number of frames you are in full block and can block heavy attacks. No effect on attacking. The UI for it would just be the indicator filing up quickly, like the reverse of the assassins block fading out.

With that system the blocking could be balanced much better without ruining the ability to block light attacks or making heavy attacks impossible to land. Balancing it is just a matter of tuning the number of frames from fast block to full block.

An option would be slightly reduced damage from a fast blocked heavy attack. It would be worth considering if parry should be possible only from the correct block state, but even if you could parry a heavy from fast block state, it would be better than the current system.

With that in place some of the silly moves to allow for landing heavy hits freely could also be balanced better and focus could be on the very core of the game - the three attack/defence directions.

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Just a bit more in depth explanation of the system I propose and why it would work.

1. Why would it work?
It is easy to implement and doesn't require any animation work or anything. It woiuld make heavy attacks only slightly easier to attack than light attacks (on average, because there are speed differences between classes, but more on this later). It would allow more focus on the core system of the three-way attack/defence system and not having to rely on GB and other mechanics to land a a heavy attack - those can still be used at high level play, but they can then be balanced better, so they are not as dominating in terms of landing heavy attacks. The game will be much easier to balance.



2. How to implement it?

a. First the block should have two states as explainted in the first post, to force players to react to heavy attacks in time to make a full block. A heavy attack hitting a block that isn't yet full will do slightly reduced damage, but the defender can still parry a heavy attack from a block that isn't full. Remove all delay from blocking, because with this system it isn't needed, and the game can feel responsive and predictable.

b. Characters should then be balanced in terms of speed and damage of attacks. The characters are already very different in playstyle and the difference in attack speed between characters should be toned down a bit. Everything balanced with damage of course.

c. GB can then be balanced to be used as a tool against defensive characters and not used by defensive characters to go on the offensive by parry. Remove the 100% GB after parry, and instead let parry be purely as a defensive tool, that only switches initiative from the defender to the attacker and not secures safe hits. Parry will do several things. It will push back the opponent like now, so he cannot attack again without getting hit first if the defender counterattacks. Second parry will switch the guard of the attacker to a different position. Third parry will drain stamina from the attacker as it does now. A GB can still be attempted but it is possible to counter it. This opens up a lot of different options for the person making a successful parry, while still allowing defence,

d. Class balance could be done around the two states of block as well. Really quick characters with fast attacks may have to react just a few frames quicker to get a full block, to balance their offensive and defensive capabilities without gimping their ability to be quick. Balancing the differenc classes would be easier.


Dodge.
Dodge needs a fix as well, now we're at it. It is too easy to dodge and counter. You can use feints for force dodges, but since dodge is free it's really not working very well. Dodging should be a purely defensive tool like blocking, unless you do a deflect. Dodging should have a stamina cost and if you're exhausted you should only be able to block and parry. So if someone dodges your attack you should still be able to block if they didn't do a deflect. Dodge timing should be slightly tighter, so that if you dodge early, you get hit. This would allow for blocking the dodge counterattack without screwing the animations up too much. I am fine with deflect giving a free attack as this can more easily be countered through feints. Also limit side dodging against side attacks to only work if you dodge towards the attack or backwards. Top attacks can be dodged to either side, but not backwards unless you do an early roll. Just initial ideas, but I think a lot of people have ideas about how to fix dodge spam. It can be fixed in several ways, but it needs a fix.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1584004-Block-fix

[coloss3070]

I see some good and valid points here but I also suggested this: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...a-a-subtle-way

Imo they'd better implement new stuff like real combos rather than the straight nerfs or the tons of changes you are suggesting.

[Mr_Gallows]

I see some good and valid points here but I also suggested this: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...a-a-subtle-way

Imo they'd better implement new stuff like real combos rather than the straight nerfs or the tons of changes you are suggesting.

My block fix is actually really simple to implement without any major changes at all. Don't be fooled by the wall of text - was just to explain it fully But I agree a fix is needed. The fix however should support the very core of the game - the three-way attack/defence system.

[Blisart.]

Nerf Orochi? What level are you? Orochi is total garbage at high level games. Grab a high level player Warlord or Conqueror and put him on a 1vs1 against an Orochi.
Orochi has a very basic Kit and 80% of his moves can be easily blocked since they are very easy to read. I bet you are just trying to hit him while he is spinning around you, and that makes you mad. Try to play defensive and you will have different results.
I sick of posts where people complaint about some class when they are the ones that actually suck at the game and and don't even know that meaning of "study your enemy".

There is only one think I have to tell them:
git gud mate.

The meta is not bad, every class can beat the shiit out of the other, they just need to know how to play against each one of them.




I agree with all the other stuff presentd in your post.
Blocking should cost stamina.
Dash should also cost a bit of stamina.
Reduce the total stamina for some assassin classes.
Makes assassins classes take 10% damage from incoming hits (heavy)(even if blocked)
Make low defense speed for havy classes, they are just solid rocks now.

[Zi0n_Zulu]

Nerf Orochi? What level are you? Orochi is total garbage at high level games. Grab a high level player Warlord or Conqueror and put him on a 1vs1 against an Orochi.
Orochi has a very basic Kit and 80% of his moves can be easily blocked since they are very easy to read. I bet you are just trying to hit him while he is spinning around you, and that makes you mad. Try to play defensive and you will have different results.
I sick of posts where people complaint about some class when they are the ones that actually suck at the game and and don't even know that meaning of "study your enemy".

There is only one think I have to tell them:
git gud mate.

The meta is not bad, every class can beat the shiit out of the other, they just need to know how to play against each one of them.




I agree with all the other stuff presentd in your post.
Blocking should cost stamina.
Dash should also cost a bit of stamina.
Reduce the total stamina for some assassin classes.
Makes assassins classes take 10% damage from incoming hits (heavy)(even if blocked)
Make low defense speed for havy classes, they are just solid rocks now.

As a Orochi player myself I do agree with you but the main issue is that the majority players no matter the warrior class rely too much on their own offensive chain spamming (that they've learned via yourube etc.) and it's very easy to read after one or two deaths. And as for dodging, you can still guard break as long as there's no incoming attack or ... You know what? Simply get the best players that you face on the battlefield to sparr with you and study them ffs.

The game has been out for less then a week and some of you act like everything is wrong with the game and not your playstyle!

[Mr_Gallows]

Fixing or balancing the classes will solve nothing in relation to the real issues. They need to revamp the blocking system so assassins have their place and things are easier to balance.

[Blisart.]

Fixing or balancing the classes will solve nothing in relation to the real issues. They need to revamp the blocking system so assassins have their place and things are easier to balance.

Please, someone give this guy a cookie.
Agree with you 100%. Revamping blocking will improve the gameplay in many ways.

[Djason]

Blocking should cost stamina.
Dash should also cost a bit of stamina.
Reduce the total stamina for some assassin classes.
Makes assassins classes take 10% damage from incoming hits (heavy)(even if blocked)

Or maybe delete assassins. That should fix them.

Option C is for crybabies. Orochi is already out of the game on high lvl fights as Blisart said.