Warden Shoulder Bash Cancel, is a change needed? | Forums

[Meeple_]

I'll start off by saying I'm not one to complain about classes and their combos. To each their own and if you can make it work, that's great. Just about anything can be counter with some practice after all. Anything... but what has a failsafe...

The Warden has a oh so satisfying combo of Light into Shoulder Bash (here on after referred to as SB) into a guaranteed two Light into SB and so on and so forth until your opponent dies or you run out of stamina (typically the former).

The counter of course is dodge the SB. Easy peasy. So as an added tool to his kit the Warden can CANCEL the SB into anything else. The best option however is to cancel it into a guard-break, as you are guaranteed to land it on a dodging character. Here's where things get iffy., did you know you can cancel the SB mid way into a guard-break? Nope that's not joke, this is an actual mechanic. And it's a problem.

Situation A: I'm smart and I know the Warden's mechanics. I see him go for the SB. Since I can expect a cancel, I dodge BACKWARDS, essential putting far enough to avoid the guard-break. The Warden can then either hold down the SB to get so more range or launch into and miss.....no wait... he cancelled it MIDWAY and I've been guard-broken. Then comes the rinse repeat combo.

After testing it with a friend, I found there's only 2 way to counter this... the first is to play as an assassin(PK, Berserker and Valk). Why you ask? Because then can hit a light into a dodge, in other words, they dodge and can then bring the light attack out quickly enough to counter the guard-break.
Or you can roll away, which is what the other 9 heroes have to do.

Let me reiterate:
1.The Warden starts SB, if it hits when uncharged, he gets 2 free light hits on you and he can repeat the combo.
2. You dodge (regardless of whether you dodge on the side or the back) and the Warden cancels his SB (not at the start, but mid-way) into a guard-break. Since you are dodging, you cannot counter the guard-break and he gets yet another 2 free hits (or a throw, if you happen to be next to a ledge). Rinse and repeat combo.
3. You've seen thru his schemes and you don't want to get cheesed. YOU ROLL AWAY AND DISENGAGE. Bad luck to you my friend. This is a disengage, not a counter, and he can repeat the combo as much as he wants when you try to fight him again.
3b. You are playing PK/Berserker/Valk. You dodge and hit sideways, preventing the guard-break. Huzzah! You've countered the combo! Until the Warden wises up he realizes and can cancel the SB into a parry... and you guessed it, he gets yet another 2 free hits. Rinse, repeat. At most, the player you are fighting against cannot parry to save his life. At worst, this combo really gets on your nerves.


Suggestions for a fix: The moveset list clearly states that the SB can be cancelled, and one (as foolish as me anyways) would assume that this means it can be cancelled DURING THE STARTUP (much like the Valk's shield tackle) rather then halfway through the animation. Make it just that. I.e: it can be cancelled for as long as the Warden as yet to actually start the move.


Have any thoughts? Think I missed some obvious counter available to ALL heroes? Think the cancel is fine as it is and shouldn't change? Just want to give your two bits? Feel free to do so and thanks for reading.

[StormBlade_24]

Warden is too basic IMO and needs more specials/unblockables attacks that actually do some damage. The shoulder-bash is not enough.

[ballslover69]

As it stands, yeah, it should be changed. Warden has some of the most low-risk tools in the game to get damage in, and having him be able to lock you down in a combo like that is kind of nuts. They took it away from the Warlord because it was too powerful, so why not the Warden?

[Maaci]

As it stands, yeah, it should be changed. Warden has some of the most low-risk tools in the game to get damage in, and having him be able to lock you down in a combo like that is kind of nuts. They took it away from the Warlord because it was too powerful, so why not the Warden?

Why it needs to be changed is because IT HAS TO MUCH RNG involved. Thats the core reason it needs to change.
If warden is OP or UP or balanced is another topic.

[G0BackT0G0]

Warden is too basic IMO and needs more specials/unblockables attacks that actually do some damage. The shoulder-bash is not enough.

i almost fell for your troll dude.