Heroes that need Readjustment. | Forums

[TheRevanchist27]

Okay, so I've been playing since the Closed Alpha, even back then we all knew that the Orochi was easily the most overpowered of the classes. Too much going for it and not enough drawbacks. It's fast, it's high damage, it's flexible, it has excellent weapon reach and attacks that lunge it forward to help further increase that reach.

While the Orochi does have the drawback of lower health, it's only slightly lower than that of a Warden.

Very little, it seems, has been done since the Alpha to curb the ridiculous nature of this class.

I'd suggest a reduction in attack damage, since speed is a necessity for this classes function.



The Kensei: This is a more recent offender since his HP boost + his new overhead light attack chain allowing him nearly imperceptible and spammable attacks.

The Nobushi: What more can be said? This character has high bleed damage (that actually frackin' works!), moderately high damage, stupidly long reach with her Naginata, and low HP. None of these things would be so bad if it weren't for the fact that her attacks are also blindingly fast, making her fast on the list of classes that are irritating and broken.


The Berserker: This class is on the list simply for the current trend of the spammable and infinite attack chains, which wouldn't be so bad if they were just a little bit slower, granting time to recognize the incoming attack and block.





On first glance one might say "You're only complaining about the Samurai faction!" and they'd only be partially correct, but not for the obvious reasons of bias or discontent with them. No the issues run deep and many with this faction. From their lightning quick attacks, to the high damage they have, to the few drawbacks they have in turn for each class.

The Samurai faction is easily the most fanciful of the factions, as the swordsmanship and combat styles of each class are well off into the extremes of a Weeaboo's anime fueled wet dream.

While I can admit that certain aspects of other factions are fanciful (looking at you Peacekeeper for your agility and combat style) and (don't think I didn't notice you Lawbringer with your fantasy plate armor that covers literally every inch) . Even the Berserker in fanciful in nature by his attacks that hang a long hang-time. Who the hell floats in the air like that?


What sold me on this game was a brutal and somewhat realistic interpretation of feudal melee combat. This is broken by several classes and to a point most of a single faction.

[TruBmp]

i agree on orochi. his double tap needs to be reduced in dmg and he should NOT get a free top heavy after a gb. other classes that are supposed to have higher dmg for lower speed have to do big setups to do as much as a orochi with a single top light double or gb into top heavy. im currently playing orochi to see if others can show me how to counter him that way and im still stunned evry game how freaking much dmg he does for so little effort.

kensai is faaar from op. actually might be in the bottom 3 classes in the whole game. any decent feint options make him instantly run out of stamina and his trademark combo finishers are easily dodged/parried. he has exactly one fast attack and his side dodge attacks are unsafe on block making them completly useless.

nobushi and berserker seem fine so far as much as i hate playing vs them.

[TheRevanchist27]

i agree on orochi. his double tap needs to be reduced in dmg and he should NOT get a free top heavy after a gb. other classes that are supposed to have higher dmg for lower speed have to do big setups to do as much as a orochi with a single top light double or gb into top heavy. im currently playing orochi to see if others can show me how to counter him that way and im still stunned evry game how freaking much dmg he does for so little effort.

kensai is faaar from op. actually might be in the bottom 3 classes in the whole game. any decent feint options make him instantly run out of stamina and his trademark combo finishers are easily dodged/parried. he has exactly one fast attack and his side dodge attacks are unsafe on block making them completly useless.

nobushi and berserker seem fine so far as much as i hate playing vs them.

Notice I never said that the Kensei is "OP". I did however say that he's become one of numerous offenders and may need a rework.

[Print.]

I'm going to heavily disagree with you here. The more experienced everyone becomes with this game, the more it comes to light that good players have no trouble blocking, parrying, guardbreak-teching and dodging everything the other player throws at them. This is because most attacks in this game are too slow, and thus too easily parried into guardbreak into optimal punish. Only a handful of characters have access to multiple fast moves (like the warden with top light and zone attack) and/or decent mixups. The characters you mentioned, however, do not or only partially.

-The orochi is decently fast and has good damage, and this makes him above average. However all his fastest moves come from the top, and as such the opponent can just hold his guard high and respond to side attacks in time if needed. Only his fast zone attack can be used to sneak some damage in.

-I like playing the kensei myself, but he simply has no tools to open up good players other than the standard feint. His attacks are too slow and his one built-in mixup is too predictable too fool experienced players.

-The berserker is almost tragic. He is a character designed around delivering a neverending series of blows, but with how easy it is to defend he never gets to play into his strengths. I've yet to see one chain for long enough to get the uninterubtability buff. Usually they get parried on the first or second swing.

If we are readjusting characters, I would like to give everyone offensive tools on the level of the warden, so we might play a more exciting game. Even better, though, would probably be to overhaul some of the universal combat mechanics, like the guaranteed guardbreaks after parries.

[TheRevanchist27]

I'm going to heavily disagree with you here. The more experienced everyone becomes with this game, the more it comes to light that good players have no trouble blocking, parrying, guardbreak-teching and dodging everything the other player throws at them. This is because most attacks in this game are too slow, and thus too easily parried into guardbreak into optimal punish. Only a handful of characters have access to multiple fast moves (like the warden with top light and zone attack) and/or decent mixups. The characters you mentioned, however, do not or only partially.

-The orochi is decently fast and has good damage, and this makes him above average. However all his fastest moves come from the top, and as such the opponent can just hold his guard high and respond to side attacks in time if needed. Only his fast zone attack can be used to sneak some damage in.

-I like playing the kensei myself, but he simply has no tools to open up good players other than the standard feint. His attacks are too slow and his one built-in mixup is too predictable too fool experienced players.

-The berserker is almost tragic. He is a character designed around delivering a neverending series of blows, but with how easy it is to defend he never gets to play into his strengths. I've yet to see one chain for long enough to get the uninterubtability buff. Usually they get parried on the first or second swing.

If we are readjusting characters, I would like to give everyone offensive tools on the level of the warden, so we might play a more exciting game. Even better, though, would probably be to overhaul some of the universal combat mechanics, like the guaranteed guardbreaks after parries.

In a less than cordial way, you'll know that I'd happily see that Orochi Weeb cuckery nerfed into the frackin' ground!

However in a more constructive way, I would rather see his attacks speed reduced 5%. His free overhead heavy on grapple removed, and his double light-attack on grapple nerfed in damage. Also his light attacks need to become more telegraphed I think.



You base your argument on "high level play" yet nobody plays this for "high level play" except for an extremely small minority. **** those guys, they only become "pros" because they know how to take the most abusive characters, and break them even further. That's all "high level play" is.... It's just exploiting harder than anyone else.

[CaptainLeowtha]

The Berserker: This class is on the list simply for the current trend of the spammable and infinite attack chains, which wouldn't be so bad if they were just a little bit slower, granting time to recognize the incoming attack and block..

I agree with everything but this. The Berserker's job is to infinite chain, you just need to get away from him/her or simply guard. It's not hard unless you have unreasonably slow block adjustment.

He has such low health that two heavies can typically finish him. I think that's more of a skill wall.

[TheRevanchist27]

I agree with everything but this. The Berserker's job is to infinite chain, you just need to get away from him/her or simply guard. It's not hard unless you have unreasonably slow block adjustment.

He has such low health that two heavies can typically finish him. I think that's more of a skill wall.

It's completely off-putting honestly. Most attack chains are three moves or less, while the berserker is hitting potentially as long as he has stamina.

[Kroma-]

No mention of warlord who is the best char in this game, because he got the best defense, the best push abilities, and one of the best offense ( not the best but still better than the majority of classes ).

Raider should be better at pushing then him, which is not the case. Warlord full block stance make the conqueror looks ****ty.
Revenge mode with warlord is just op.

Now warden need a fix on his shoulder charge, they should remove the fact that you can cancel it with a feint atleast, leave the GB cancel if you want but atleast the normal feint should go.
Because right now the only reliable way to get out of it, is to do a dodge + roll, but if you do that he can just run and attack you and you wont be able to defend since you are rolling away. So there is litteraly nothing you can do against a good warden to counter his shoulder charge other than attacking him as fast as you can which with some classes dont do the job.

[TheRevanchist27]

No mention of warlord who is the best char in this game, because he got the best defense, the best push abilities, and one of the best offense ( not the best but still better than the majority of classes ).

Raider should be better at pushing then him, which is not the case. Warlord full block stance make the conqueror looks ****ty.
Revenge mode with warlord is just op.

Now warden need a fix on his shoulder charge, they should remove the fact that you can cancel it with a feint atleast, leave the GB cancel if you want but atleast the normal feint should go.
Because right now the only reliable way to get out of it, is to do a dodge + roll, but if you do that he can just run and attack you and you wont be able to defend since you are rolling away. So there is litteraly nothing you can do against a good warden to counter his shoulder charge other than attacking him as fast as you can which with some classes dont do the job.

Personally haven't had so much trouble with the Warlord, he's generally pretty slow. However he does have a few cheese moves.

As you can see this post is already geared towards several characters though, however I appreciate your addition to the thread.

[WistyAro]

As a Nobushi main I often search for a lot of discussion regarding her. There isn't much compared to other classes in this game currently, which leads me to believe shes in a good spot balance-wise

I often see people complain about her bleed mechanic, I find it interesting how many people bring up that this part of her kit is unnecessary. I don't really know how to feel about it honestly. I feel like the class would still be able to perform as well as it currently does even without the bleed damage, but would she be losing any kind of edge to the other heroes? and would she be able to play up her zoning power as well as she currently does? I often see opponents back away from the nobushi after getting in a hit or attempting to. i find it strange they would give up their ground to a hero who wants to keep you far away. I feel like the bleed damage helps to discourage that passive play. As for the damage bonus on bleeding opponents, I wouldn't really care if they removed that feature...well I would, but for completely different reasons regarding the game as a whole.

Also regarding your claim that the samurai are too fanciful. I see some truth to that, mainly in the amount of ground that orochi can cover with their dashing attack, and pretty much shugoki as a whole. However I think that there is a good chunk of fantasy in the other factions. It can't really be helped since i'm sure we don't know exactly how all these warriors would actually fight each other in the first place. The lawbringer is about on par with the shugoki in terms on fantasy. I feel like the warden is the only realistically functioning hero in the game