Guard Breaking is inconsistent and really brings this game down for me.... | Forums

I took part in the all of the tests, open and closed, as well as got the game on release. At this point I am taking a break from this game because of this one mechanic....here is why.

The Guard Breaking mechanic in this game is fundamentally flawed when you stack it in comparison with how this combat system is supposed to work according to the folks here at Ubisoft and it changes the game from being strategic to being everyone guard breaking all the time for instant kills or guaranteed combos.

To begin the combat in this game is supposedly action/reaction with a hint of chess like strategy thrown in to again supposedly mix things up and prevent there from being any button mashing or win all situations or strategies.

Which brings me to my first point that guard breaking is just a mash fest because...
1. the timing and way it works keeps changing and not everyone knows how it works at any given time because the information about how and when it changes is scarce (which we'll let slide, just misinformation)
2. some classes have huge advantages when it comes to guard breaking namely the faster classes.
My point here being that it takes little to no skill at all to use a class like Orochi and press GB, Top Heavy (guaranteed free hit every. single. time.) and just repeat it constantly. This will absolutely demolish newer players without them even having a chance to fight back. 2 simple button presses over and over and over, I equate that to mashing. No risk for a huge reward. Not to mention the free guard breaks into heavies that the Berserker gets, which can arguably be worse. Even skilled players have a hard time getting away from combos such as this when they are using a slower character.

I main the Lawbringer since release and currently have him just past reputation 2 but have played a good amount with the peacekeeper as well during the testing. I'm not the best obviously but I'm a pretty competent player. Over the course of my play time across all the tests and since release this game has literally devolved into a pushing match. The higher the level of play I get to, the more cheese just gets poured over the top. Granted no one can be that high at this point but I've been matched against players of reputation 3 with a gear score above 90 with purple gear and 90% of the time they just rely on the cheesy guard break infinite combos, the berserker especially, or the guaranteed guard breaks into guaranteed heavy hits.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but each character (if not all individually, each 'class') has a variable on the range of their guard break and how fast the animation is performed.
Which further strengthens the fact that faster characters are nigh unstoppable when a skilled player learns how to infinite combo the guard break with free hits especially against a slower character.
So even if your timing is absolutely, positively perfect with a guard break counter(or so you thought) you still may miss it due to the fact that each character's animation timing is slightly different. And to add insult to injury the advantage that faster characters get with guard breaks is compounded by moves like the dashing grabs. Looking at you peacekeepers. They can dodge dash then guard break as well as sprint into a dashing guard break, so essentially guard break someone from almost 15-20 feet away, silly. And then lets not forget that all of characters are in a perpetual state of guarding, so even when you are sprinting around you can be guard broken which is also quite comical.

Which translates into the fact that every time you go to counter a guard break you need to account for 8 main variables.
1.when you press the button
2.when your opponent presses the button (or vice versa)
3.your character's specific animation timing on the guard break
4.the enemy character's specific animation timing on the guard break
5. the distance your specific character's guard break travels
6.the distance your enemy's specific character's guard break travels
7.How fast your specific character can travel that distance
8.How fast your enemy's specific character can travel that distance

Considering nothing is constant in this equation.....ever.....there is no way to reliably combat this mechanic with skill, it is always a crap shoot based on too many variables. It might as well be RNG because it's the equivalent of rolling dice and seeing who gets a better roll. With all 8 of these variables you get one signal on screen (in the form of the guard break icon) that doesn't translate 1 to 1 like every other combat mechanic in the game. Which makes no sense, you can still have all the variables just have the guard break icon appear when you are supposed to counter in each situation..

Compare this to pretty much every other combat mechanic in the game...
Blocking for example, you see the icon for an attack coming from a certain direction = you block in that direction.
Parrying for example, you see the icon for an attack coming in and you press the button the instant the icon turns red = you parry the attack
Both of these examples have some variable like speed and direction but the major difference here is that regardless of the variables there is a 1 to 1 translation on the screen for an action that prompts the reaction that is supposed to take place on your controller at that moment.
You see a prompt, you react to that prompt and you are rewarded accordingly and guard breaking is the only mechanic that doesn't follow these core rules to the combat mechanics which makes it feel out of place and down right broken to a lot of players including myself.

The significance of and the literal utility of mechanics like combos, dodging, unblock-able and uninterruptable attacks is severely diminished if not negated by the end all be all guard breaking mechanic.
You can't dodge a guard break like you dodge every other form of attack even if it's perfectly timed because for some reason it has better tracking than a light attack and will just nab you from the side which is nonsense.
You can't parry a guard break like you parry every other form of attack because the icon is for some reason not synced up with when you are supposed to perform your action like EVERY other mechanic in this game

I don't mind there being a guard breaking mechanic/throw in the game as long as it is implemented properly and with skill aligned with how most everything else is implemented in this game. I think fixing this would be simple, very simple.

Just have the icon appear on screen when you are supposed to press the button for a counter with a small window after it appears.
Again just like every other combat mechanic you built your Art of Battle system around; action/reaction.

Not let the faster character always win because their animation time is shorter and they can travel a greater distance faster. Most people chalk it up to terrible balancing which it very well could be but it seems more to me like a bug or an oversight in the coding than intentionally making the mechanic work the way it does now.

Agreed completely about the fast characters having the GB advantage.. But you heard they're changing it back to the beta mechanic, right? It's in a sticky on the announcements thread.

Not sure WHY THEY DIDN'T IMPLEMENT THE PLANNED CHANGE BEFORE THEIR FIRST POST-LAUNCH WEEKEND, but who am I to judge how to make a good impression, via working mechanics, with your new game.

what a wall of text. i just skimmed it. if you had spend as much time into learning to counter guard break as you did on producing this essay, you would not have needed to make this post. its really not that hard to counter guard break. there are tons of threads in the forum explaining how to do it. good people manage to do it almost every time.

you sound like counter guard breaking is some kind of rocket science that requires some complex math. when in reality all you have to do is press guard break as soon as the enemies character touches you with his guard break. there are sound cues for that too so its pretty easy to counter guard break with your eyes closed.

How do you learn something that is constantly changing. Take your git guud elitist attitude to the kiddy section of the forums.

Because if you would have actually read the post you might understand what i'm actually saying, but since you can't be bothered why don't you go lick another battery.

Thanks

are you kidding me?
you wrote a ****ing essay on how you are quitting this game over something that is 'constantly' changing. it changed once so far, and the forum is full of advice on how to perform the cgb now.
i took the time to explain it to you.
and btw the countless "COUNTERGUARDBREAKING IS SO HARD ILL QUIT THIS GAME" posts ARE the 'kiddy section' of the forum.
now just go learn how to do it, its not that hard once you figure it out. for me its easiest to go by sound, as i said. try that.

and btw, once you realize how easy it is, the whole speed factor of guard breaks for different classes becomes an absolute non factor.

again I think you should actually read the post, I can send hooked on phonics out to you if your skills aren't up the level of that 'essay' yet. I never once said I was quitting the game, or that the mechanic was too hard or pretty much anything you brought up.

I put down my SUGGESTIONS AND FEEDBACK in the SUGGESTIONS AND FEEDBACK section of the forum. I know that might be a hard concept for you to grasp since you probably haven't trolled or insulted anyone all day before this so I understand...

better run though I think I hear your mom calling you...dinner is ready

Originally Posted by Haniel_

Agreed completely about the fast characters having the GB advantage.. But you heard they're changing it back to the beta mechanic, right? It's in a sticky on the announcements thread.

Not sure WHY THEY DIDN'T IMPLEMENT THE PLANNED CHANGE BEFORE THEIR FIRST POST-LAUNCH WEEKEND, but who am I to judge how to make a good impression, via working mechanics, with your new game.

It was completely fine in the open beta, no idea why they changed that and even worse, it didnt appear in the changelog, it was a ninja nerf to GB counter.

now its really random and based in "who GB first" when 2 people are making a GB at the same time + the connection problems make this really unpredictable and luck based (in the sync of your connection and theirs)

i hope they changed completely as how it was in the open beta, seriously it was 100% fine and precise, like my counter guard break %

you said you would take a break, not quit. semantics.
you said counter guard breaking requires, and i quote:
"Which translates into the fact that every time you go to counter a guard break you need to account for 8 main variables.
1.when you press the button
2.when your opponent presses the button (or vice versa)
3.your character's specific animation timing on the guard break
4.the enemy character's specific animation timing on the guard break
5. the distance your specific character's guard break travels
6.the distance your enemy's specific character's guard break travels
7.How fast your specific character can travel that distance
8.How fast your enemy's specific character can travel that distance"
which is just completely false, its easy as **** and you make it sound as if u had to do multiple calculations in a split second. so yea, you made it sound way more complicated.

then you tried to make the rather misinformed point, that the speed of characters guard break would somehow make this game imbalanced. which it does not. counter guard breaking is as easy as stealing candy from a baby so even if your enemy can guard break faster, the result will be that you counter guard break.

if i still got something wrong or missed an important point of ur post, how about you give a tldr.

Originally Posted by G0BackT0G0

what a wall of text. i just skimmed it. if you had spend as much time into learning to counter guard break as you did on producing this essay, you would not have needed to make this post. its really not that hard to counter guard break. there are tons of threads in the forum explaining how to do it. good people manage to do it almost every time.

you sound like counter guard breaking is some kind of rocket science that requires some complex math. when in reality all you have to do is press guard break as soon as the enemies character touches you with his guard break. there are sound cues for that too so its pretty easy to counter guard break with your eyes closed.

If guardbreaking is so great now, then why is everyone complaining, and why is ubisoft changing it back to beta form? Obviously there's issues with it, and if you can't take the time to read a full post, then don't take the time to respond and sound wholly ignorant.

the only REAL issue with guard breaking is that if 2 people guard break at the same time, it will result in one of them performing an untechable guard break. and they will fix it. as someone pointed out there is a sticky in the announcement forum about that.
but OP did not talk about that. like many others he simply does not know how to counter guard break and decided that while he does not understand how to perform it, he would be in a position to give his opinion about it. instead of spending 10 minutes to learn it, he made this post man. if you can not see how ****ing ridiculous that is i really do not know what to say. just look at the ****ing length of it. he talks about something he does not understand at all.
again: the one problem with gbing will be fixed. not what op talked about. op made counter guard breaking sound really complicated when its in fact really easy.

if at ALL you wanted to make a point about different classes and guard break its this: counter guard breaking is easy. so guard breaks only come into effect when they are untechable, after a parry for example. in this case, there are classes that have an advantage because of their range. if i parry some classes, i do not get a free untechable guardbreak on them because they will get knocked back out of reach. but those classes are generally the exact opposite of the fast classes that OP decided had an advantage when it comes to guard breaking. i dont consider this imbalanced though.

and my point stands, if OP had spend his time learning the mechanic, this whole thread would be obsolete.