Warden shoulder bash into guardbreak is broken | Forums

[ThePollie]

Shugoki's can hyper-armour through it. I think the Lawbringer can shove through it. Assassins are fast enough to light-attack it if their reflexes are good.

My best advice - Don't get in their face. At immediate close range, there's no right decision. If you have some range on them, their guard-break won't reach unless they stall it out, and their charge is slow enough to recognize it's legit and avoid it.

[B1ood_R3d]

you do realize that if you dodge it, you become vulnerable to the guardbreak followup, as you cannot counter if grabbed while dodging, right? that's sort of the whole crux of this issue. The bash forces you to dodge, or you'll get hit by lights as follow-up, but if you dodge, you get grabbed. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't issue. Again, this is the whole problem.

....Break the grab then. As a Warden main for most of the time i spent in the Aplha, 2 bclosed betas, open beta and now the full game....Warden has a predictable offense that requires most skill to make effective against a viable opponent. Warlord had and STILL has more to work with before and after his move/tactic was removed. Its like I say eslewhere in these forums...Gamers will NEVER be satisfied with characters in a fighting game..Someone will always ***** about something instead of either using a different character or adapting.

[Wyrmspirit]

....Break the grab then. As a Warden main for most of the time i spent in the Aplha, 2 bclosed betas, open beta and now the full game....Warden has a predictable offense that requires most skill to make effective against a viable opponent. Warlord had and STILL has more to work with before and after his move/tactic was removed. Its like I say eslewhere in these forums...Gamers will NEVER be satisfied with characters in a fighting game..Someone will always ***** about something instead of either using a different character or adapting.

It's not about player skill at all, it's about game design.

As someone who has been heavily invested into fighting games and part of the fighting game community since the 90's, I've seen hundreds of fighting games and I understand how the fundamental design aspects work. You don't make characters like this, full stop. You can't justify it by pointing at some other character that might also be broken and say "well look see what he can do". These are valid objections that need to be addressed across the board. Nobody here is saying that Warden is the only character with a flawed design. There are other problems with other characters as well.

Furthermore, it is not a matter of some way to "deal with" his kit. it does not mean anything to say that it requires a high amount of skill to beat a single hero because skill always matters in fighting games regardless of how a character is designed. Even if there are specific moves that a proficient player can use to defeat his kit, at best that's a work-around, but not a solution. The imbalance of the move itself still needs to be addressed, not in comparison to what other heroes can do, or how skilled a player needs to be, but as a game design decision in a fighting game compared to other extremely well designed fighting games that have already shown us what works and what doesn't through decades of trial-and-error.

[GamerBucketXbox]

All you have to do is dodge roll away. Its really easy

[ballslover69]

All you have to do is dodge roll away. Its really easy

Completely untrue. Source: I play a warden and have played against wardens

[Pyranna87]

....Break the grab then. As a Warden main for most of the time i spent in the Aplha, 2 bclosed betas, open beta and now the full game....Warden has a predictable offense that requires most skill to make effective against a viable opponent. Warlord had and STILL has more to work with before and after his move/tactic was removed. Its like I say eslewhere in these forums...Gamers will NEVER be satisfied with characters in a fighting game..Someone will always ***** about something instead of either using a different character or adapting.

Such an ignorant statement right here from someone who is supposedly experienced at the game.

People saying dodge it or counter the guardbreak don't understand the problem, the shoulderbash cancel to guardbreak has no visual indication, if you tried to dodge the shoulderbash it's literally impossible to break the grab since you cant counter GB while dodging and the warden gets free guaranteed damage, if you dodge early the bash will just track you and hit anyway. Sidestepping as an assassin class works and double dodging also works with every class

There is no reliable counterplay to a wardens shoulder bash mix-up and imo is as toxic as headbutt used to be.

Give it the same nerfs headbutt recieved. Shorten its range and completely remove the guardbreak. Wardens who rely on this cheese combo might be a lil bit salty at first but the rest of the playerbase will be happy.

[Shinimas]

Completely untrue. Source: I play a warden and have played against wardens

It is? You will get hit once, obviously, but you will be able to roll out of the actual vortex.

[Gnarxly]

Pretty safe to ignore a balancing idea that goes by "class x got z skill removed thus class y should too"

[Vandgarde]

So, the warden starts shoulder bashing alternating completing it with cancelling into GB. If you dodge and he completes it, then you are good to go. But if he cancels it and you dodge, doesn't he get an guaranteed GB because you dodged? And if you don't dodge anticipating the GB, he gets free light attacks on you and can continue the chain. It seems like the only "counter" is to double dash away and re-engage.

Honestly I feel like it wouldn't be a problem at all if you could tech a gb after a dash, but then I guess that would add other balancing problems. Idk, either way it seems like something is not working quite as intended with the shoulder bash mechanic right now.

[ZenBearV13]

All you have to do is dodge roll away. Its really easy

Yes, you can avoid the vortex by rolling. The problem with this is that rolling costs about 1/4-1/3 your stamina, often leaving you exhausted. Then all the Warden has to do is dodge forward>shoulder bash and you're stuck in the same spot. There's no escaping the problem, just delaying the inevitable coin flip.