1. #1
    We who have taken part of westworlds view of history must take in consideration that the history is written by the winner.

    After the WWII there where a cold war, and that has also a influence on how the history is told.

    We have read many nice books and seen a lot of films produced by mostly westworld filmproducer.

    And there must be some heoric film produced according to the legacy of Eisenstein, but I have never heard of any.

    If you look at the Pearl Harbour movie you may know what I am talking about.

    This has offcourse influenced our thought about the aircraft we have seen and read about.

    We all have a favourite aircraft, the Yak, the FW, the Polikarpov, the P-series, the Spitfire and so on and we all have the true facts about or favourit planes performace, from books, films and anecdotes.

    Perhaps wont the facts about airplanes match our wishes, and perhaps the the characteristics of the aircrafts in this game dont match our wishes either.

    And if it does it wont be told in this forum like "Oleg the FW turns much to good and its guns are far to lethal and it shouldnt climb so good" from a FW-lover.

    We want ofcourse master the skies with our favourite and perhaps the producer of this game havnt got all the characteristics 100% correct either.

    Take the settings of this game as they are and adapt the tactics to them.

    And most of all be very glad that we dont have to go to war so help me .......

    (I dont like films where everybody speaks the same language but with accent so you can understand that they are the enemy and the only original words for the enemy are "Achtung", "Feuer" and "Banzai".)

    [This message was edited by zugfuhrer on Mon March 15 2004 at 02:24 PM.]
    Share this post

  2. #2
    We who have taken part of westworlds view of history must take in consideration that the history is written by the winner.

    After the WWII there where a cold war, and that has also a influence on how the history is told.

    We have read many nice books and seen a lot of films produced by mostly westworld filmproducer.

    And there must be some heoric film produced according to the legacy of Eisenstein, but I have never heard of any.

    If you look at the Pearl Harbour movie you may know what I am talking about.

    This has offcourse influenced our thought about the aircraft we have seen and read about.

    We all have a favourite aircraft, the Yak, the FW, the Polikarpov, the P-series, the Spitfire and so on and we all have the true facts about or favourit planes performace, from books, films and anecdotes.

    Perhaps wont the facts about airplanes match our wishes, and perhaps the the characteristics of the aircrafts in this game dont match our wishes either.

    And if it does it wont be told in this forum like "Oleg the FW turns much to good and its guns are far to lethal and it shouldnt climb so good" from a FW-lover.

    We want ofcourse master the skies with our favourite and perhaps the producer of this game havnt got all the characteristics 100% correct either.

    Take the settings of this game as they are and adapt the tactics to them.

    And most of all be very glad that we dont have to go to war so help me .......

    (I dont like films where everybody speaks the same language but with accent so you can understand that they are the enemy and the only original words for the enemy are "Achtung", "Feuer" and "Banzai".)

    [This message was edited by zugfuhrer on Mon March 15 2004 at 02:24 PM.]
    Share this post

  3. #3
    WWMaxGunz's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    4,792
    Yes, it is well known that the German data Oleg uses was really produced in US propaganda mills out in Hollyweird right next to the film studios. John Wayne himself had a big hand in this.


    Neal
    Share this post

  4. #4
    I heard from some dude on HL that the P-40 FM was modeled after Wild Bill's P-40 in "1941". So, you are wrong again MazGuns, John Belushi was more influential on our FMs than John Wayne.


    www.7Jg77.com
    CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine.
    Share this post

  5. #5
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
    Take the settings of this game as they are and adapt the tactics to them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Could you imagine playing a game such as Chess with some of these guys? All they'd want to do is argue the damned Movement Models for every piece?

    "What do you mean the bishop can move further than the knight? He isn't even on a horse?"

    Yada, yada, yada.

    Share this post

  6. #6
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cossack13:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
    Take the settings of this game as they are and adapt the tactics to them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Could you imagine playing a game such as Chess with some of these guys? All they'd want to do is argue the damned Movement Models for every piece?

    "What do you mean the bishop can move further than the knight? He isn't even on a horse?"

    Yada, yada, yada.

    http://www.tolwyn.com/~cossack/White13.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



    Share this post

  7. #7
    VW-IceFire's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    13,646
    Oleg is a bit of an academic when it comes to aircraft performance. He typically uses more than one source document, he usually takes preference to the country that built it and then tested it unless there is reason to doubt it. In most cases testing procedures were probably very good but with some idiosyncracies that inevitably make things interesting.

    I don't see things being too off here in AEP. Simulations are somewhat limited but it flys great here!


    RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"
    Share this post

  8. #8
    I agree with you in some parts. It wouldnt be fun to meet a jet with a WWII fighter. But the disadvanteges arnt that big, only almost:-)
    As long as I dont get any real punishment.

    If the IL2-compare program is correct you can take a look in it and use the advantage of your plane. And if you are inferiour which sometime happends, if you meet different sorts of A/C and they have only one weakness each to exploit it is hard. And if are in a team and can be succesful its more fun.
    Share this post

  9. #9
    BfHeFwMe's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,224
    Another one who confuses history with contemporary politics. So who defeated the Romans and provided our present historical perspective on them?
    Share this post

  10. #10
    Well problem is sooner or later the truth always comes out. Their is a plethora of WW2 AC performance data all over the world actual documents etc.

    US plane performance data is abound although as years go by testing documents etc are dissapearing as described by Dean in his AHT.

    LW AC pose another problem as the Germans destroyed tons of documrnts etc in 1945, while the Soviets captured much LW data, but most still remains buried in Russian archives etc.

    Authors today are faced with conflicting resource data on LW ac especialy Ie, many sources on the Fw 190 state the Fw 190A wing span @ difering wingspans Ie, 10.383m, 10.49, 10.056m etc.

    Yet surviving FW documents such as Fw 190A-8D(Luft)190A-8 show the Fw 190A-8 wingspan was 10.50m, while a few surviving Fw 190 proposal drawings show difering wingspans.

    Basicly German aviation historians accept the 10.50m span while many other authors use 10.506m. The same controversy applies to the Fw 190 fuselage length etc. And the same confusion exists in other nations aircraft in refrences etc.


    So its not realy a case of any Nation trying to rewrite History etc, neither the US or Soviets have to, surviveing German records more then support the decimation of the LW w/o any help.

    Its a case of conflicting data Ie, factory test data, vs military test data etc, their is no conspiracy, as one should realise from any time spent reading this forum, that their realy is no universaly accepted, empeirical data on most AC in IL-2.

    One can produce authentic factory data etc, all day long, and someone else here, will claim its propoganda etc. One could make a strong case that their are no real true facts concerning any nations WW2 AC.

    Such is life in the FS world.

    Regards, John Waters

    ---------
    Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

    ------
    "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

    Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

    [This message was edited by PzKpfw on Mon March 15 2004 at 09:12 PM.]
    Share this post