Any advice on how to use Shugoki? | Forums

[Myrnodyne]

There really is no follow-up after demon ball unless you're next to a wall, and if you are you should throw instead. So don't use demon ball unless you need the space to recharge your armor, or if it'll knock them into a hazard/ring out. Otherwise stick to using your throw or light -> headbutt from a guard break.

Other tips:
- Your bearhug is guaranteed after a wall splat using a throw, there is nothing they can do to escape. So guard break -> throw into wall -> bear hug. It's pretty gross.
- A heavy attack is also guaranteed after a wall splat, good for ending with an execution since you can't heavy attack from a guard break normally.
- Light -> headbutt is a natural combo, and is devastating to their stamina.
- Don't use the bear hug unless it's guaranteed or if you're willing to gamble on how good your opponent is.
- Avoid fighting when your armor is down. There's no reason to be aggressive when it's down.

The reason I advice demon ball over the other GB followups is because in duels you don't get gear, and after a charge attack or double heavy attack, you have generally little stamina left, Demon ball creates enough distance for you to be ready for offensive moves again when they come back up, and might give you enough time to re-shield if necessary against the characters with poor engages. To put it in simple terms: You use it to reset yourself to optimum, while your opponent is on the back foot.

[Ferrio]

The reason I advice demon ball over the other GB followups is because in duels you don't get gear, and after a charge attack or double heavy attack, you have generally little stamina left, Demon ball creates enough distance for you to be ready for offensive moves again when they come back up, and might give you enough time to re-shield if necessary against the characters with poor engages. To put it in simple terms: You use it to reset yourself to optimum, while your opponent is on the back foot.

Well right, like I said if you need space or it's going to kill it's a good choice otherwise there's better options. Light -> headbutt also gives you ton of space like demon ball AND your opponent's stamina bar gets a *huge* hit.

As for stamina I try to keep both the unblockable and double heavies to a minimum. Like you said both take lots of stamina in addition that both are easily parried which kills your stamina even more.

[Stankyfoot]

If you take off "lock-on" in the middle of a heavy your attacks are unparryable.

[Myrnodyne]

Sounds like an exploit, I wouldn't use it.

[Te_Wheke]

I was practicing against a Shugoki and noticed a couple of things:

• When his armour was up he seemed to be able to block the unblockable second attack in Orochi's top light combo, I was only using the combo when I pulled off a successful parry so not sure if it's only in that situation or always applies.
• He can feint into the Demon's Embrace (I think that's what it's called - the bearhug) which adds an extra layer of utility to it.

[LunarMammal369]

The Uninterruptible Stance "advantage" almost seems to be more of a hindrance than a benefit, especially against quick characters like Orochi. Is anyone successful with this character, and if so, what if your basic game plan? Are you just forcing trades with Uninterruptible Stance? Asserting constant pressure with Bash & Smash (light, heavy combo)? Playing a grab game with Demon's Embrace, Demon Ball, and Headbutt? Something else?

A couple of specific questions as well:

1) How do you know when your Uninterruptible Stance is on cooldown?
2) Do you just retreat at all costs when Uninterruptible Stance is on cooldown?
3) What is a good follow up for Demon Ball? I land this a good amount but feel like I should be able to capitalize on it more.

Thanks for all the help. I love this guy but I'm struggling...

This is my 2 cents on how to play the Shugoki after spending sometime with this character. I call this the Steam Roller Strat.

1.The best way to play this slow character is to simply move forward relentless to your opponent with super armor on!

2. This will force the opponents to engage you and play into the Shugoki strengths of being a heavy hitter.

3. Focus on using your light attacks to trade with your opponent. Mix in with heavy attacks,Demon Ball,Demon Embrace etc when appropriate.

4. You will be laughing gleefully when you see your oponents scurrying around the arena trying to avoid you or frantically trading blows with you to no avail

5. The most gleeful moment is when you force them to the edge and crush them using Demon Embrace or you hit them over the ledge with Demon Ball!

5. This strat will win most opponents except for those who are very agile or who out wit you.

Hope you have fun. I sure had mine.lol.

[darkbluenc]

1) As soon as you take damage or are hit with a guard break (even a countered one), your stance is lost. From that point, you need to watch for a white flash on your character to signal that the stance has returned. To my knowledge, there is no way to tell if your stance is down without actively tracking when you took damage/got grabbed and when the flash occurs.
2) Retreating is difficult thanks to the Shugoki's lack of speed, but I do try to turtle up as best as possible. The problem is that even an unsuccessful guard break by your opponent will keep your stance down.
3) I have been wondering this same thing. As far as I can tell, the main uses for this ability are to buy yourself some space or to take advantage of environmental threats.

It's a shame because I also love this hero, but it is far harder to play than any of the others I have tried. I do well against players who do not dodge or parry, but experienced players rather easily deal with the character thanks to his lack of speed.

The first thing I noticed training against a shugoki bot was that a guard break attempt was enough to break the stance. That totally changed my strat going against a shugoki (to put it simplywalk to them and guard break if they are bad, otherwise wait for the inevitable light to prevent the guard break, see if there is a heavy follow-up, use your guard break when there is an opening basically).

Once I really switched to playing it I understood that it was not really as bad a thing as I thought. The shugoki and his opponent plays differently depending on the existence of the stance or not (with the stance shugoki is the aggressor and he'll settle easily for trades, without he is defending and looking for that parry->throw to wall->bearhug).

I'm rep2 with him now and with a way better record on duels with him than I thought I would have (about 80%). That said, as unfair as a guaranteed bearhug can be, I still consider that half of my win against as equally skilled player is because of their failure to recognize the dynamic that they have to use against a shugoki.

To answer the OP :
1) Just what Raazeikel said.

2) It's not about retreating. Retreating does not help if it's not safe (you are slow). It's more about not taking damage (25% damage increase is huge and the main reason shugoki is pretty bad at 1v2 or 1v3). Just get some space if he can't guardbreak you and focus on blocking and parrying. Even if the shugoki is pretty slow to change stance, it is possible to block an assassin going full LA until exhaustion (happened to me quite a few times even if it is challenging and demands focus). Usually, your opponent may get a bit reckless so that's also your best chance to get a good parry.

3) The Shugoki is both a good trader and punisher for me. Demon Ball (well alo headbutt) is a tool to exactly do that. Shugoki has a few options after a GB, usually you will want to go with either demon ball or LA+Headbutt while in the open but never while near a wall or if your opponent is exhausted (deals 10 less damage but takes a good chunk of stamina off and getting your opponent exhausted is still the best way to get your stance back). Demon Ball is also a good way to punish into environment. That said, I've noticed that your opponent does not necessirally flight straight where you thought he would go so just pushing can be safer for a ledge kil.

[GiganticKORAK]

Shugoki is very weak in 1v1 situation in high level play.

First of all, he lacks variety of feints. The most he can pull off is light -> heavy cancel -> guardbreak/light + headbutt. Or zone attack cancel into guardbreak/light + headbutt.
Guardbreak is hard to land on a good opponent.

And light + headbutt does very pathetic damage. And because of little to none feint games, even when the enemy is out of stamina, they just need to play it safe until it regenerates.

He also has a very slow guard switching. So against fast attackers like peace keeper, if you don't react or predict their directional combo, it is very easy make mistake and take damage.

The worst of all, he loses super armor frame when guardbreak hits, even if he tech the guardbreak. Once people know how to fight shugoki, he is nothing but a pile of meat.
You guardbreak him, stay within attack range, throw in a few heavy feints, and directional switch and chip him away. He is too slow to trade attacks with you once his armor is down. Most likely he will be interrupted before you get hit.

He does have very scary wall throw combos, but sadly his parry into guardbreak can be broken out of. So even that isn't a guaranteed damage.
And landing a guardbreak on a good player is as hard as it gets. I have played against players that I triple feint'ed on kensei and he still managed to tech out of my guardbreak.
Shugoki level of feints isn't going to catch skilled player offguard.

And no, you will not land a charge of oni on anyone decent. And no, you will not land an unlock sprint heavy or guardbreak. If the enemy plays character that can side step, all of these options will be voided by a simple side step + attack. You will miss your sprint heavy if they side dodge. You will bounce off guardbreak due to their attacking property. And charge of Oni will not land when they side dodges.
For anyone else, they just have to keep in your face, and make sure your super armor is always recharging from guardbreak, and pressure you from max attack range.

All his heavy hits rely on guardbreak into throw. His charged heavy can be countered by simple back step or even side step can dodge it completely whether you use the bug or not. And it use a huge chunk out of his stamina.

As of now, people think of him OP is because they do not know how to fight him. Once you go into the lab and check out some stuff, you will soon find out... this guy is really weak in duels.

So if you want to take him to the higher level of play... prepare to play uphill battle everytime.

[LunarMammal369]

Shugoki is very weak in 1v1 situation in high level play.

First of all, he lacks variety of feints. The most he can pull off is light -> heavy cancel -> guardbreak/light + headbutt. Or zone attack cancel into guardbreak/light + headbutt.
Guardbreak is hard to land on a good opponent.

And light + headbutt does very pathetic damage. And because of little to none feint games, even when the enemy is out of stamina, they just need to play it safe until it regenerates.

He also has a very slow guard switching. So against fast attackers like peace keeper, if you don't react or predict their directional combo, it is very easy make mistake and take damage.

The worst of all, he loses super armor frame when guardbreak hits, even if he tech the guardbreak. Once people know how to fight shugoki, he is nothing but a pile of meat.
You guardbreak him, stay within attack range, throw in a few heavy feints, and directional switch and chip him away. He is too slow to trade attacks with you once his armor is down. Most likely he will be interrupted before you get hit.

He does have very scary wall throw combos, but sadly his parry into guardbreak can be broken out of. So even that isn't a guaranteed damage.
And landing a guardbreak on a good player is as hard as it gets. I have played against players that I triple feint'ed on kensei and he still managed to tech out of my guardbreak.
Shugoki level of feints isn't going to catch skilled player offguard.

And no, you will not land a charge of oni on anyone decent. And no, you will not land an unlock sprint heavy or guardbreak. If the enemy plays character that can side step, all of these options will be voided by a simple side step + attack. You will miss your sprint heavy if they side dodge. You will bounce off guardbreak due to their attacking property. And charge of Oni will not land when they side dodges.
For anyone else, they just have to keep in your face, and make sure your super armor is always recharging from guardbreak, and pressure you from max attack range.

All his heavy hits rely on guardbreak into throw. His charged heavy can be countered by simple back step or even side step can dodge it completely whether you use the bug or not. And it use a huge chunk out of his stamina.

As of now, people think of him OP is because they do not know how to fight him. Once you go into the lab and check out some stuff, you will soon find out... this guy is really weak in duels.

So if you want to take him to the higher level of play... prepare to play uphill battle everytime.

In that case do you have any tips for high level play? I am now rep 2 for shugoki but I seems to have hit a plateau at rep 1.

My opponents are not trading with me at all.
They are going toe to toe with me and decimating me with light attacks and guard breaks.

I simply don't have the speed and stamina to block and counter attack them when they start to spam lights and mixed in with heavies.

I tried Demon Embrace and they just back dashed to counter. I feinted from zone attack and grabbed and they countered. Even if I managed to grab them, I don't have the stamina to follow up effectively. I even tried light plus heavy but they normally blocked or parried....

I am getting frustrated and any advice will be helpful.

All in all, I think the shugoki is being let down by poor stamina as I cannot follow up properly after a successful attack like Demon Ball or Embrace

[GiganticKORAK]

In that case do you have any tips for high level play? I am now rep 2 for shugoki but I seems to have hit a plateau at rep 1.

My opponents are not trading with me at all.
They are going toe to toe with me and decimating me with light attacks and guard breaks.

I simply don't have the speed and stamina to block and counter attack them when they start to spam lights and mixed in with heavies.

I tried Demon Embrace and they just back dashed to counter. I feinted from zone attack and grabbed and they countered. Even if I managed to grab them, I don't have the stamina to follow up effectively. I even tried light plus heavy but they normally blocked or parried....

I am getting frustrated and any advice will be helpful.

All in all, I think the shugoki is being let down by poor stamina as I cannot follow up properly after a successful attack like Demon Ball or Embrace

I am sorry, I don't think I can help.
I, too do not know what Shugoki can do to fight people that knows the match-up.

Are we supposed to not even let the enemy touch us with guardbreak? I don't see that being possible.

If you go for guardbreak with feint, it might work one or two times, but they will soon be ready for it. and the chance of landing a surprised guardbreak would be even lower.

As for parry -> GB. I think distance and range of the enemy attacks play a big part in this too. My parry -> GB had been tech'ed out of multiple times by peacekeeper and some other characters. I didn't go onto a full testing with this, but overall I'd say it is still too unreliable.
Also, due to his slow directional changes, his parry feels clunkier than other faster character. Once again, from experience. I never have trouble parrying Peacekeeper's light attacks on kensei, but on Shugoki I would eat like3 of them trying to parry. I don't think I made an error on my part, so it might have something to do with the slow guard switch. If someone has an accurate information on this one, please do share.
By the way, parrying long range characters like Nobushi isn't helpful as they will be too far for guardbreak or any sort of follow up.

The best advice I can give is to feel when your opponent is going to use guardbreak, and use your light attack. You will get a small damage and drop their stamina. you can kind of feel they are going to use guardbreak after you guys stare at each other for about 2-3 seconds. If not, then learn the enemy's habit. See if you can find out when he likes to go for guardbreak.

And mix-up light -> heavy, heavy -> heavy, light -> heavy (cancel) guardbreak etc.
Sometimes slow attacks are harder to parry when come out of no where. If you throw enough light attacks to the enemy, and they start to get used to it. Then mix it up with some heavy, and heavy cancel. They might just get hit by the heavy because they tried to parry a light, and get the timing wrong.

If possible, make them fight in a small room. Walls make you deadly with GB, and they will have less room to play the spacing game. Also, parrying someone in a small room will allow you to GB them with ease, as they will get stuck on obstacles and stay within optimal GB range.

Once again, these are more like emergency first aid. There are too many problem with Shugoki at the moment, you need to be leagues above your enemy to take a win.