I have noticed that there is a lot of salt regarding the skill builds adjustment. Perhaps, in time, we could reach a middle ground between the current implementation and a way to promote diversity.
Skills like booster shot, tactical scanner, that provide "free" bonuses, cause imbalance in the build process because they make the creation of combo DPS/Tank characters quite more profitable than anything else. Even with the cap of ADR coming to 1.6, diversity is something that will not exist because there is no obvious advantage into speccing into other than firearms to unlock damage talents and then the rest into stamina to assure survivability.
My suggestion would be to lock skill mods/skills/talents/ behind stat requirements as it happens with the weapon talents. Could this be a way to foster build diversity and finally achieve anything close to a strategic requirement in gameplay. As it stands, skill builds are a mere curiosity most of the time.
No salt, no "gimme this now, i think it so it is the best way to go", I would really like to see some discussion on this, I'm sure there are people here with much better grasp on why this would be good/bad than me.
Cheers
Jebus
Edit: Apologies if someone suggested this before.
I like the idea in principle, but how would you implement it exactly? Are we suggesting to group existing skills under the major attributes of Firearms, Toughness and Electronics so that only DPS players have access to turrets etc?Originally Posted by JebusMakesWine Go to original post
Or are we suggesting that certain skills like heals and support stations have low level requirements so that pretty much every player has access to them but that offensive skills like seekers and turrets have higher Electronics requirements?
Like I said, you may have something here but how it is implemented is crucial in deciding if it works or makes things worse.
From how I read the post, I think the OP was suggesting heals and pulse (the freebe skills as it were) need a minimum electronics requirement to use. So if you spec into DPS/Stamina with no electronics, you will have no skills to use, which I think is a good idea. You want skills, spec some electronics.Originally Posted by Winslow-the-Dog Go to original post
My original idea was to make mods/skills/talents into a tree where how deep you can go into that tree will depend on your main stats. RIFT, regardless of any shortcomings, did this nicely. Nothing groundbreaking, just an implementation of what we see in other RPGs into TD so we could end the DPS meta, Sticky meta, etc. I believe it would also help with the balancing because if you see some skills being over used, i.e. Booster in PVP, you can move them up the ladder.
Hopefully with everyone's input we can actually come up with a worthy implementation.
PS: Not enough replies let's get the salt rolling: PVP is evil, makes nerfs to PVE. Rogues are **** and their moms too. Die Massive Die. We want a PVE DZ. I want 0s cooldowns on my skill build. Plis don't increase GS. Where is my barret chest after 10000000000 runs. Too many hakus in the DZ. Ah, this should generate some salty traffic.
Please don't take this as criticism, because like you, I would like to find a solution to many of the issues currently plaguing the game. I am just wondering what we would do about certain gearsets such as Firecrest? Depending upon how far up the tree and/or under which tree the fire turret was placed, wouldn't we effectively be pigeon holing the Firecrest build into a certain niche requiring X amount of electronics etc.Originally Posted by JebusMakesWine Go to original post
I mention this specifically because of the huge diversity that I have seen in Firecrest builds. Mine for example sits at a little over 400K toughness and 200K skillpower whilst a friend of mine plays with much less electronics and considerably more firearms than me. He would be forced to give up firearms and perhaps play quite differently if an electronics requirement was put on the turret that he couldn't attain.
I would actually like to see a cap put on both electronics and firearms (well rather on DPS and skillpower) with a requirement for specific stamina stats on weapon talents and perhaps skills. This would force players to reach a specific Stamina score by which AI toughness and damage output could be scaled after which players would have to choose to spec into either firearms or skills to open up their talents.
This would allow skills and firearms to be better balanced. In addition, I think that if Massive wants skill build players to use weapons then if as a result of speccing into skills, weapon talents remain locked, then the weapon would default to say 229 or 182 (only as part of that build) so that the weapon talents were unlocked. This would allow for better DPS output or additional skill power benefits and allow skills to be toned down so that some use of weapons is required.
This is where I think Massive shot itself in the foot by messing with talents like the new healing talent on the Caduceus and the previous 'Coolheaded' talent it had. If you want skill build players to use weapons then there needs to be an incentive for it beyond 'airsoft' DPS. A stronger Tactician bonus for the actual user (X2 or X3), a return of 'coolheaded' and more skill based talents that don't require making a kill (just causing damage) would have promoted this. This in turn would have encouraged more speccing into toughness and bringing tacticians out of cover.
I would prefer 3 only stats of Firearms, Health and Electronics. Get rid of toughness and skill power.
You then spec in what you want. If you had 98% in Firearms then you would only have 1% in stamina and 1% in skills. So you die to a pistol bullet and you heal/pulse/turret etc,only has 1% of it's max power. If you spec 70% in health, 10% firearms and 20% elec you are a bullet sponge with a 20% heal but you bullets only do 10% damage.
You set the max possible % of each item based on it's ability to kill someone.
A 98% BFB should JUST be able to one shot a 98% health build
A 98% Firearms using a max roll Bolt action should be able to one shot a 98% health build
Then your gear set minor attributes spec you in what you prefer like EDR, xp, bleed res, etc.
A fight between a 70% smg build vs a 70% heath build would be equal and would come down to skill of the player and when they used there pulse/heals/medkits etc.
I take it as criticism and that's a good thing, I don't like echo chambers. And yes, you are right, it would end up in pidgeonholing specific builds that currently exist, yet that is a sacrifice I would gladly make in order to have some structure. I would like to hear more about your cap on stats idea, i'm not sure if I can understand exactly how it would work.Originally Posted by Winslow-the-Dog Go to original post
Im in kinda the same boat as you Jebus. I always thought that having skill power directly related to electronics and having all the skills unlock to you no matter what level your electronics was, was going to lead to problems. I think that Electronics should be kinda like a skill level, the higher you have the more options are opened to you for a particular skill. Meaning at base electronics (lets say less than 1k) you get access to the Turret. At 2k you get access to the 1st mod of the turret, 3k the second and so on. When you have max Electronics or somewhere around there the final mod should become available for the skill.
Now this would make the gear sets more interesting as well. In Winslow's case where he likes to run Firecrest, the 4 piece bonus could be that it unlocks the Flame Turret. You don't have to have any electronics stacked in order to do that. Reclaimer could unlock the final talent for med-bags, Tactician could unlock the third talent for each skill for free, etc you get the idea. What would you do for the pure DPS sets though? Maybe Hunters Faith gives you the Stability Talent 100% of the time, you don't have to bounce in and out of cover. Or Nomad gives you a version of On the Move where you just damage people for a small damage mitigation percent. I think that would make the gear sets more interesting and more valuable. I think currently the gear sets are unimaginative a full HE yellow set seems to have more wiggle room and seems to perform better in most situations.