Orochi at higher level play | Forums

[CF_Pyre]

I'd like to discuss Orochi's bland moveset, so I'll go through my opinions below - feel free to compare the "special" advantages of an orochi's moveset to other characters, like Valkyrie.

• The Storm Rush WILL ALWAYS get either parried or deflected at higher level and can hence only rarely be used as a counter. I say rarely as if you dash back for storm rush while dodging a heavy and go in with said storm rush, the opponent's heavy hit recovery is already over to defend against said storm rush in a lot of cases. This is especially evident with Warden. More on the note with Warden, given how he can use overhead Crushing Counterstrike, Orochi's double top light, lightning strike AND (especially) Riptide Strike all become nearly redundant against a good Warden. It's odd to have most of his special moves all only work for overheads. Storm Rush is not even as effective as Valkyrie's Shield Tackle (back dash and x) which similarly dash back but then instead of a heavy goes in to All-guard, knocks an opponent to the ground AND drains stamina, allowing for a follow-up combo such as dash forward light following with a light and then light/heavy to the side to stun and hence allowing another good heavy or GB back to the ground.
• Riptide Strike is also a special move in that it can dodge a short range attack and counter with an overhead heavy. However, this only works short range with good timing and cannot be cancelled so you have to commit and hope the attack you dodge is not cancelled too for a punish. This is nowhere near as special as, say, Nobushi's hidden stance, which also dodges an attack but also masks guard and can go in to the second hit of a chain from any direction with any move and can be sustained/cancelled - not just one heavy overhead.
• The Zephyr Slash is predictable and easily punishable and since it only comes in the direction you dash in, further reinforcing the whole predictable case, it's not even as effective as Kensei's side dash light, which attacks in the opposite direction of your dash and can be more effective or confusing, especially to a stunned opponent.

Moreover, the "reward" for having a reflex guard (only active for 2 seconds) is, what, the ability to deflect? Deflect is currently less punishment than parrying while having a stricter time to pull off. Even then, Valkyrie has a similar deflect (dodge in the direction of an attack and follow with a heavy) without the cost of reflex guard and with the reward of a one-bar bleed (Shoulder Pin) not to mention she can simply block in the direction of an attack and, once blocked, follow with a light which does as much as Orochi's deflect light. So... where's the balance? Right now, Orochi is a glass cannon that shoots paper; being fragile and not allowing mistakes while doing little damage after a counter.
I believe Orochi should either get a buff in the form of having an easier deflect system (either by having more time to deflect or having less frames so they can deflect lights), have deflects punish more (stun for example, which quite a few characters already have or at LEAST interrupt chains!), deal slightly more damage or simply be more agile to a point where he can dodge the range of Kensei, Nobushi or Raider (after all, he is tagged as "agile"). Actually, a really simple way to buff would be to be able to cancel Riptide Strike, which allows to dodge back a short range hit and follow up however, not just overhead heavy.

[ArantirQc]

even if orochi get blocked she can keep attacking, this will work against more than half of the classes since they are simply too slow.

parry are made to be able to punish an opponent.

dodge the range of nobushi kensei and raider? nobushi specialize in range, i cant really tell about kensei haven't relay seen him that much, and raider only have decent range on upper heavy attack which u can simply dodge sideways.

deal more damage? orochi specialize in harassing and backing off quickly, her damage is even a bit too high considering that she has such a high attack speed

[CaesarVI00]

I wholeheartedly agree. Since this is the only special move the Orochi can perform, it either needs to be more punishing when done, or become easier to use. This is the signature move of this Hero, yet I so rarely see it, or even able to perform it. It was much easier during the Alpha gameplay, but changing its mechanics makes it more of a risk than a benefit.

[Leon026]

Wouldn't mind seeing the deflect window being a little easier - but that could make the class really too powerful, if every single enemy attack turns into a Deflect -> Wind Gust / Hurricane Blast.

[Peligrad]

Orochi is already considered the second most powerful character in the game. Second only to Warden and that will likely change because I really doubt Warden's shoulder charge cheese is going to go unaddressed for long.

Orochi does not need help or a buff.

Those signature moves are intended to be weaved into the rest of his kit. Not spammed and used like a crutch.

Tech'd heavy attacks don't need to be easy to land. In fact, just the opposite.

L2Orochi

[The_Mensan]

I agree with this 100%.

Orochi is low tier in the top level game play.

I would propose giving his Zephyr Slash either more I-frames, or make it dodge lower, move further (so it's more effective). His dodge is already very good, but given that this is his thing, he should have a dodge unmatched by other characers.

The backstep slash (Riptide) is virtually useless. ANY back-dash or side-dodge heavy can accomplish the same thing with none of the risk. The uncancellable nature of the move makes it too risky to use.

The backdash slash (Stormrush) move CAN be a sure hit, but it happens so rarely that it might as be luck. You need to literally be dodging the very moment a slow opponent does a heavy so your slash his them during recovery. It's too situational to be a great move. It's still a good move in terms of mixup because you can feint it if you don't catch. It was a much better move when you can feint AFTER the rush, because then its GB mixup gives you a strong 50/50 game. They nerfed that to the ground so Orochi can't force a good 50/50.

Orochi's weak offense... I am ok with... If Ubisoft at least fix its defense as well. It has no advantage over the Peacekeeper in terms of defense but the peacekeeper has more offensive options. Orochi is too weak and too low damage to NOT be really good at defense. He needs it. Without a good dodge OR deflect punish, he will be food at top tier.

I don't mind how "difficult" deflect is, it's really not that difficult. It just doesn't give enough advantage over parry. The "option select" aspect of dodge / deflect is lost when the dodge move kinda sucks. At highest level, parry gives far better result than deflect.

Warden is a monster at high level, Nobushi/PK/Warlord is good, the rest is around the same level (read: sucks).

[basic-one]

Anyone with good reflexes can counter many characters' light attacks (and therefore, also their heavies) by simply overhead light attacking the moment you see the move start. This class has "counter-attacker" in its description for a reason.

That fact alone makes Orochi hard to deal with from the other side of the blade.

[S_K_Gh]

I agree, Orochi needs a buff. It's almost imposibble to play against a player who has good defense (By "good" i mean GOOD) as Orochi.

[Haaadas]

I agree, Orochi needs a buff. It's almost imposibble to play against a player who has good defense (By "good" i mean GOOD) as Orochi.

I dont even know how to beat good knight who always counter breaks. I try cancel attacks other tricks but still if u managed to land few hits its not enoutgh because each fail/parry = lose hp. Unless u stand still and wait for him to attack and try to land that deflect.

[G0BackT0G0]

Orochi is already considered the second most powerful character in the game.
L2Orochi

lol. just no. orochi has a pretty good zone attack, so do others (warden, pk for example, both are better), but what else does he have that makes him that good? lets hear it.

is there a ladder/raning for this game? link? we need to see top player class distribution.

op pretty much summed up everything about orochi and how he is rather weak at high level play.
riptide strike for example is so extremely bad. why would you ever use it over a parry, its so risky and has no added reward other than style points. storm rush zephyr slash are extremely easily defended against and punished, as OP already pointed out.