Summary of Defense v Offense Imbalance and Possible (Easy) Fixes | Forums

[Xanthus730]

Quick Note: If you vote in the poll, please leave at least a few words in a post explaining your view, since poll votes won't bump the thread. Thanks!

Problem
So, as outlined in this thread there is currently a bit of a problem with the game balance between offensive and defensive play in For Honor. As a quick tl;dr, I'll sum this up:

• All attacks in FH (including GB) are well within human reaction time (0.25s on average) allowing a high-skill player to, if they choose, simply turtle forever.
• Defensive counter-attacks (deflect & parry) are also within this timing.
• Feints are still within this window, so barring panic or over-committal, these can be fully reacted as well, even parry attempts can be cancelled back into a block if you're baited.
• GB and/or Attack chains from block, parry, and deflect are equally damaging, or in many cases MORE damaging than offensive chains, and in many cases, can't be countered.

This combines to form a situation where it's impossible to mount an offense that's not incredibly risky, proper defense is nearly non-risk,and the best offensive option in the game is turtling and fishing for counters.

This is not a 'healthy' state for the game and won't help For Honor develop high-level competitive gameplay, rather it will turn into a staring match at the competitive level.
tl;dr - Defense OP

Solution
I've seen a few threads complaining about this problem, but suggesting huge changes to the game, or total system reworks, changes to stamina, changes to revenge, etc.
I don't think anything this crazy is necessary.

For proper competitive fighting-game style gameplay, For Honor needs to create an environment where mixups can happen, offensive pressure can be developed, and defending isn't 100% the best option always.

I think the best option would be to simply make some small numbers tweaks to a variety of the parts of the current system to encourage offensive gameplay and proper risk v reward balancing.

• Parry shouldn't be able to be cancelled into block to react to being baited by a feint.
• Fast light attacks' block/parry window should be slightly shorter so that it favors guessing/reading over raw reaction. Stamina & damage costs may need to be adjusted to keep this balanced.
• Stance swapping should be just slightly slower so that you can't change stance 2 times in the span of one heavy. Once you've chosen a guard in reaction to a heavy, that should be your guard. You can raw react to heavies, there's no reason you should be able to raw react to a heavy TWICE.
• Damage options from parry/deflect/block should be scaled back a bit, or scaled based on the power of the attack that was countered. (stagger window scaled based on incoming attack's power)
• Removed un-techable guardbreaks after parry/deflect.
• Slow, high-stamina cost attacks may need to be slightly more powerful.
• SLIGHTLY raise chip damage across the board.
• Outside of superior block or parries, simple blocks shouldn't interrupt light attack chains.

I feel like this would be a good start, and after something like this, stamina system, revenge system, character balance, etc may need further work, or maybe not. But I think the core of the issue is the currently super-defensive favored flow of gameplay.

[Xanthus730]

Thank you for voting in the poll, to those who have, but please also leave a comment, even if it's just a couple words, explaining your vote, since votes don't bump the thread. Thank you!

[abkfjk]

Thank you very much for detailing the issue so clearly. Please everyone vote and respond to this.

[froutos16]

If even one thing from your list comes through, I won't even boot up the game to test it. Comes straight into the furnace.

It's a mess as it is right now, with attacks being faster than supposed and all that trash. Making them even faster is like begging for the game to just die. In the core of your post, you just ask for ways to make wildly swining people hit something. No. I'd rather wait for a new darksouls DLC then.

Turtling is not the best way in high level play, have you even checked? If anything at all, I'd make very character having to time their guards, like Orochi, no static block stance like a wardens for example. But not even that is necessary.

I'm sure plenty of people will respond to that, explaining in detail why that should be the surefire way to doom the game, I don't feel like doing so.

[Xanthus730]

In the core of your post, you just ask for ways to make wildly swining people hit something.

No.

Turtling is not the best way in high level play, have you even checked?

Yes.

Thank you for replying.

[JimHatama]

last chage is all that needed. blocks souldnt stop combo

[Xanthus730]

last chage is all that needed. blocks souldnt stop combo

It would definitely help, but I think you'd still need to do more, since a parry would still stop a combo and open up huge damage potential.
Parry shouldn't be scarier than an unblocked combo.

[Breikas.]

Parries should not be able to be feinted aswell, you should have to commit to a parry. Also raise chip damage on heavy attacks significantly.

[G0BackT0G0]

i REALLY REALLY think that defense being too strong is NOT the actual problem, because it would imply nerfing defense.
instead, offense should be buffed. there are way too few mix-ups to break someones defense. THATS the problem. defense IS too strong and too easy because attacking is too weak. they need to improve the mix-up game and add options. more mix-ups also make this game more interesting to play. simply nerfing defense is the wrong approach imo.

that being said, does parry even cost any stamina? if so, its so minimal i never noticed. anyways, it should cost stamina and if it already does the cost needs to be increased.

[RYUJINdotEXE]

1) You can't distinguish between HEAVY and PARRY outside of timing, so saying you can't cancel a PARRY into BLOCK is impossible.

2) I agree chip damage should be slightly increased to not turn this into turtle fighter. Would also make parry now the hands down most desireable form of defense.

3) LIGHT CHAINS NEED TO NOT BE INTERRUPTED BY BLOCK I AGREE WITH THIS INFINITELY, OTHERWISE BLOCK BECOMES AN AUTOMATIC PARRY, AND THAT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE AT ALL. NONE.

I REPEAT. LIGHT CHAINS NEED TO NOT BE INTERRUPTED BY BLOCK, THUS MAKING BLOCK A PARRY, THUS DIMINISHING THE VALUE OF PARRY.

ONE MORE TIME. I REPEAT. LIGHT CHAINS SHOULD NOT BE INTERRUPTED BY BLOCK.

Thank you.