Here is the proof you need that absolute defense breaks the game | Forums

[Gin_n_Limecay]

I could link to the same video you just posted, of you opening him up like 20 times. having the life lead the whole time. making the point that if he hit a button he'd do more damage, then immediately whiffing a heavy mistiming a parry... Don't even think its worth mentioning all the stuff you weren't trying yet, learn the characters a little more and you're dipping your toes into what fighting game meta is stick with it lol

[Akyohiro]

Working as intended

Yup I think so too

[SpazzMaticuz]

That is dumb because the Warden has abilities that let him attack without risk... why is that person playing Warden ???

Are you new? Warden kick ***.

[Blankhere]

I love that warden, I played orochi players all day at release and they did this over and over. Hit and run constantly, just spend all your fast light attacks and soon as you get hit once run. People are playing that class so they don't have to learn anything in the game. I only watched this vid for the first 2 mins and orochi never guard breaks, just goes to show how limited they want to play. Attack and run only 2 abilities and they make a forum post that the game is flawed. XD

[Icepick_Trotsky]

I love that warden, I played orochi players all day at release and they did this over and over. Hit and run constantly, just spend all your fast light attacks and soon as you get hit once run. People are playing that class so they don't have to learn anything in the game. I only watched this vid for the first 2 mins and orochi never guard breaks, just goes to show how limited they want to play. Attack and run only 2 abilities and they make a forum post that the game is flawed. XD

The **** are you talking about? He tried GB 5 times in those 2 miniutes.

To all those saying he didnt use all atacks - so what? in 3 minutes he managed to slip what, 2 light atacks? what would it change if he used 2 more mix ups? slip 2 more light atacks? Still he would need at least 5 minutes to kill this Warden. Now how much time do you think this fight would last if Warden parried and counteratacked? 1 minute?

Problem is, this is not super high skill level if anyone can reach it after 2 betas and alpha, which is what? 10 days in total? It would be whole different story if you needed Korean pro-gamer level of skill to do that. But you dont. Imagine this game a month from now, or 2 months. There will be hundreds of people like this.

[CrusadingNoble]

I think it takes a lot of skill to play like this in an actual duel constantly. If someone can make their defense impenetrable, then IMO they desrvet he win.

"Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack."

By defending superbly you increase the chance the enemy will become more rash and overextend. A guaranteed guardbreak will lead to a game of rocket tag where people will try to get one off, mash atacks, jump back and wait to do it again.

Countering guardbreaks when they are mixed up with shoves/dashes/attacks/feints is hard work, in reality you will get guard broken even if you're a defensive god. my two cents.

[DerHerbman]

You see that the warden get damage when he blocks right? Nothing wrong here. When you focus on blocking of course he can block 100%. But he also looses energy. What is your suggestion though? Get killed while blocking?
When warden tried to Parry or counter attack he would open himself for attacks, so it would be a fight! Orochi fints-> warden parry missed-> orochi hits...

BTW whats your W/L ratio? If your suggestion is right it should be extreme high!

[Wrander]

Working as intended

Maybe, but that Intention dosn't work. At the end of the Beta I had the same issue. It's not that hard to learn to react to everything and i saw a lot of people who could defend themselv against pretty much everything. In addition everyone could parry and assassins also can dodge and counterattack.

Everytime I fight someone like that I got the feeling that whoever attacks gets damage. And the one who dosn't attacks wins. And many people got atleast close to that point where they could block/counter nearly everything on reaction. What happens in weeks, months a year after release?

Offense should be the best defense to keep your opponent from attacking you while defense should be a fight at disadvantage where you try to get your momentum back. Sadly atm defense is the best offense and there is no dynamic fight.

[Obdach01]

I have no idea why blocking is concidered bad? Even in real fights, there is one who is better than the other. And blocking is completely valid. And if it's 2v2, and both wardens just defend, well, attack one warden as a 2 man group. Let's see if he survives that one. Sooner or later one of them has to attack or they both loose the round. I am not the best player, as i am pretty old and my hand-eye coordination is pretty bad. I used to be good when i weas younger. Still I play this game with my friends... some of which are much younger and/or much better than me. I defend then. I block, I dodge, I back off and wait for a mistake to take advantage of. Most of the times i loose, because they are simply better, but when I win, it's a freaking party in the room. I am proud and happy.
Why should only offense be viable? There is no reason for it... especially not in real life. Defense always helps, even in real life, but is slow. And if you are a perfect defender, why shouldn't you be rewarded, even if it's just a tie? To me a tie against TerryC (my gaming buddy) feels like a damn win.

[LordKaterchen]

I'm afraid you are missing the point. If the warden decided to parry/counter-attack he would win every time. But for demonstration purposes he never attacked. The point is, it makes no sense to attack first since you can't break someone's guard anyways. It's better to wait for the other person to attack, then counter-attack. Right now high-skill players are literally ending up in constant staring games/attempts to feint/guard breaks (which in return are countered with counter-guard breaks). This is unhealthy for the game because it reinforces players to not be aggressive.

Before I respond let me agree, that focusing on pure defense for stalling should not be as effective (I also find myself unable to hurt good players who focus on defense purely).
I also agree with the much bigger problem of Defense being at a major advantage even if you want to win instead of just stallling.

However I disagree that the warden would have just needed to decide for parry/counter-attack instead of blocking. This is what actually makes feinting useful and opens a weakness if the opponent attempts to get some damage in by parrying first. Block is much safer than parry but cannot be capitalized on.
Since heavy attacks do chip damage on block you could alleviate some of the proplem by giving the win to the player with more hp% left at the end of the round.

I don't find the system so much 'broken' as rather 'unengaging' on high level of play. I think that risk-reward is badly skewed against offense and for defense and I would very much like the devs to rebalance some numbers/frames/timings to rebalance the risk-reward between offense and defense. I think just tiny adjustments of a few frames here and there could already fix most of this problem.