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  1. #1
    ChenBop's Avatar Senior Member
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    My Opinion on why the Darkzone failed

    A large part of why people hate the DZ os on Massive in how unbalanced the gear sets were, percieved griefing, and thier lack of anti cheat software. Im going to ignore that for now and concentrate on how Massive lack of understanding of human psychology contributed to the DZ as a whole being rejected by a large portion of the player base.

    Growing up I come from a 2D fighting games background. I have and still play Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, etc. 2D fighting games are not popular as they use to be becuase the learning curve to too hihh for most people. People now dont want to learn about frame data, hit boxes, punishes, etc. Eventhough being good at those games does not translate to being good in The Division it does help curb a human trait that hinders people from reaching thier true potential.

    What Im talking about is Loss Aversion. Loss Aversion in simple terms means people have a fear of losing even if its at the expense of potential gains. People who experience Loss Aversion hurt twice as much on a loss than experince joy in a gain. Thats where the feeling of "salt" comes from. One thing that you learn from playing fighting games competively is that unless you're born an EVO Esports champ you're going to get you're a** handed to you.....alot. Why on Earth would people subject themselves to such punishment. Its becuase playing the CPU can only take you so far and you need to play human players to get better.

    Where The Division messed up is the 1-30 experience is a relative PVE safe space. If you die...nothing really happens and its very easy stay alive. Then at Level 30 theres this Frankenstein PVEVP thing that is both punishing/fullfilling but gives the player a way out but still reap all the rewards. I do acknowledge that people enjoy PVE content and have no desire to PVP. However there's no denying that PVP requires a different skill set and improvisation.

    PVP games like Call of Duty you can skip the single player all together and go straight into the fire. PVE games like Diablo has endgame content thats fulfilling. The Division doesnt have any of that. PVE is safe but unfulfilling and PVP is dangerous but fulfilling.

    In conclusion: If they do make The Divsion 2, from the very beginning it needs to establish what it is. If its a Dark Souls type challenging experience then you cannot offer the player a way out. You cannot cater to everyone becuase it divides the player base. I really dont want to say "get good" but the only way people get better is to learn from losing. Even being ganked is a learning experience becuase you learn how to avoid groups instead of never returning to the DZ.

    If you want a one size fits all game then the DZ shouldnt exist. Just make a PVP arena. Most of this was probably rambling but its what I think about when I read most of the posts on this forum. People complain about griefing and you dont even have a clue what real griefing is.
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  2. #2
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    This thread could get interesting but it'll end up a ~P v P players arguing with P v E players.

    OP your intentions are valid to open up a discussion but sadly it will fall into the old Verses argument sorry to say.
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  3. #3
    nairda2k9's Avatar Banned
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    I think putting in the option to advance straight to level 30 would be a great idea, I just had this happen in another game and could play it with my friends at the same level instantly. Even gave me basic level tier gear to get started. That way if you want to go straight in at DZ top tier with your friends that's cool. if you haven't done the 1-30 experience IMO you would appreciate it more when you get around to it. Stay Positive
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  4. #4
    ChenBop's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Commander-Blue Go to original post
    This thread could get interesting but it'll end up a ~P v P players arguing with P v E players.

    OP your intentions are valid to open up a discussion but sadly it will fall into the old Verses argument sorry to say.
    I dont want to turn this into a PVP vs PVE arguement.

    I just want people to understand that being killed alot is not a negative against the DZ. People need to accept that when you play another human person then losing is enievitable. Its something you have to accept.

    I do agree there needs to be anti cheat and a lack of truely OP gear however people want perfect balance and thats not the answer.

    If I had a choice between perfect balance and variety... I would choose variety 100% of the time because not everyone plays the same way.
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  5. #5
    ChenBop's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by mckrackin5324 Go to original post
    "Perceived griefing"?

    ""You ***** scrub fa##ott,,,get out of my Dark Zone you care bear ***** n###er"

    Am I wrong to "perceive" that as griefing?

    The best way for me to enjoy the Dark Zone is listening through the wall.
    I would not buy your game.
    Welcome to multiplayer games...Ive heard far worse.
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  6. #6
    ChenBop's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by mckrackin5324 Go to original post
    Luckily,in this game,I don't have to.
    As for the Dark Souls experience...a game that is hard just for the sake of being hard is a niche(at best)genre and I do not partake.
    Actually even though the game is still on cult status its impact on all of gaming far reaching. Alot of game developers are copying its model. People are starting to appreciate old school difficult games.

    Honestly Im a PC players and I thought about buying a PS4 just so I can get Noih. Its eats me up inside that I can't play it.
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  7. #7
    Truth is , third person cover shooter games doesnt work for pvp, simply because nobody uses the mechanics right, just look at how gears of war pvp works, its just people wall bouncing and shotgunning your face, the devs themselves said one time that its annoying and not how they planned.
    The dark zone is a good concept but it also doesnt really work

    If massive plans a division 2 imo what it needs to suceed is to drop pvp completely and focus only in story, missions, builds, etc just like borderlands do
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  8. #8
    gt2k's Avatar Senior Member
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    The DZ is a failure because PVP in this game is the worst out there right now.
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  9. #9
    gt2k's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by JpeBrZ Go to original post
    Truth is , third person cover shooter games doesnt work for pvp, simply because nobody uses the mechanics right, just look at how gears of war pvp works, its just people wall bouncing and shotgunning your face, the devs themselves said one time that its annoying and not how they planned.
    The dark zone is a good concept but it doesnt really work

    If massive plans a division 2 imo what it needs to suceed is to drop pvp completely and focus only in story, missions, builds, etc just like borderlands do
    If there is one they have to copy destiny and make PVP balanced.
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  10. #10
    nairda2k9's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by gt2k Go to original post
    If there is one they have to copy destiny and make PVP balanced.
    It's not too late to remove PVP in this Division. just take it away, rework it, bring it back in a balanced format that works with the game. Sorted Stay Positive
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