Side Dash Attacks are too powerful | Forums

[NiceBoatUS]

Because it isn't just aggression. It's probably the most effective form of defensive aggression in the game and its entirely too easy to use.

They should be punished for mistiming and misdirecting their dodges more often. They shouldn't be able to just mindlessly throw dodges whenever and however they feel like and only be punished for it if their opponent is decidedly patient.

One simple, skill-less attack shouldn't be able to counter every other attack in the game (including itself) with minimal effort.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be able to do what it was does, but god damn it shouldn't be so easy.

If it's reactive, it isn't aggression. Dodge attacks into neutral opponents are easy to hard-counter.

Unlike parrying, dodging is healthy. You can mindgame your opponent with feints to punish it. A dodge is a maneuver that forces the defending player to commit.
You can't mindgame someone who parries and then cancels in case you feint. He's always neutral and ready to take you on. It's a defense with guaranteed damage if the attacking player commits that doesn't require the defending player to commit.

[Mr.MokMok]

If it's reactive, it isn't aggression. Dodge attacks into neutral opponents are easy to hard-counter.

Unlike parrying, dodging is healthy. You can mindgame your opponent with feints to punish it. A dodge is a maneuver that forces the defending player to commit.
You can't mindgame someone who parries and then cancels in case you feint. He's always neutral and ready to take you on. It's a defense with guaranteed damage if the attacking player commits that doesn't require the defending player to commit.

When dodging, are equal to the vulnerability of someone who misses a parry and cancels. (Maybe even less depending on the spacing, honestly.)

You aren't forced to attack after the dodge if they feinted. That's an additional error on par with the defender in the parry scenario not cancelling their heavy when they parried thin air.

So once again, a dodge just becomes an easy mode parry and punish for chars with dodge strikes.

[NiceBoatUS]

Well yeah, you're probably right. But then again if it's a dodge without an attack, the game resets back to neutral - and, at the very least, dodging can't be done ad infinitum due to stamina costs. But it probably doesn't matter all that much since you can just regenerate it by looking manacing and threatening to parry.

[Peligrad]

Dodge-attacks lose to feints.

Feint top-heavy, enemy commits to dodge-attack. Ur advantage: you see very quickly where the attack will come from: the direction of the dodge tells you before the red arrow shows you. If they dodge left, they must attack from left. Result: easy to parry.

Pay more attention to where the character dodges to and less on the red reticule and you will have a much easier time vs those attacks.

This isn't true.

It is possible to dodge left and attack from right. Seen both Kensei and Orochi do this.

[Brave_Thunder]

Those kind of attacks are the ones that distinguish the assassin class from the others.Just like a conqueror forces you to be patient for his great defense and shield bash,an assassin has to relie upon his speed and his fast attacks.Take the pk for example:she can dodge and hit with a heavy, which is easy to block or parry,since it will always come from the direction of her dodge.This is made exactly to reward the player that understand this tactic,allowing him to get a parry and free damage.Every hero has his own combos and strat:you can't aspect to play always aggressive/passive and win everytime.

[TeoHTime]

You aren't forced to attack after the dodge if they feinted.

You haven't tried this have you. Side dodge attacks like Orochi or Kensei side light only trigger if you press the attack button immediately after dodging. You cannot dodge, wait, and hit attack at the end to do the side dash attack, you'll simply be doing a dodge followed by a light. You also cannot feint those attacks, and for those reasons these attacks are a commitment. Commitments are bad in this game, because defence is so strong, so throwing these attacks around is a bad option in higher level play.

You'll realise once you've seen them enough times that a random side dash attack is simply a free parry. They are visually distinct because of the dashing animation, slower than lights, only come from a set direction, and can't be cancelled. This is free damage for anybody comfortable with the game. The exception is a side dash attack done in response to a particular committed attack on reaction, as a punish.... but that's a suboptimal punish, because if you can react to a committed attack then you should be parrying it which will lead to more damage in nearly all cases.

This isn't true.

It is possible to dodge left and attack from right. Seen both Kensei and Orochi do this.

Kensei dash attack hits in the opposite direction to their dash direction. They don't have an option to do it in a different direction, it always hits the same way. Orochi doesn't have the option of doing Zephyr slash in a different direction, they always attack to the side they dodge to.

[Peligrad]

I suspected that about Kensei. None-the-less the quoted text is false.

But I can also tell you that I've seen Orochi dash to a side and attack the opposite direction. It does look differently than zypher strike though so it is possible that it is just two separate actions that were chained together very fluently by a skilled player with extremely fast Orochi light attacks. The Orochi high level bot does this a lot as well.

[Mr.MokMok]

You haven't tried this have you. Side dodge attacks like Orochi or Kensei side light only trigger if you press the attack button immediately after dodging. You cannot dodge, wait, and hit attack at the end to do the side dash attack, you'll simply be doing a dodge followed by a light. You also cannot feint those attacks, and for those reasons these attacks are a commitment. Commitments are bad in this game, because defence is so strong, so throwing these attacks around is a bad option in higher level play.

You'll realise once you've seen them enough times that a random side dash attack is simply a free parry. They are visually distinct because of the dashing animation, slower than lights, only come from a set direction, and can't be cancelled. This is free damage for anybody comfortable with the game. The exception is a side dash attack done in response to a particular committed attack on reaction, as a punish.... but that's a suboptimal punish, because if you can react to a committed attack then you should be parrying it which will lead to more damage in nearly all cases.



Kensei dash attack hits in the opposite direction to their dash direction. They don't have an option to do it in a different direction, it always hits the same way. Orochi doesn't have the option of doing Zephyr slash in a different direction, they always attack to the side they dodge to.

You absolutely have a moment before committing to the attack while dodging, particularly with kensei who has a very long dodge animation.

Nobody said you could feint those, we were talking about reacting to a feint. That's the context I think you're missing.

We aren't discussing random side dash attacks.

It's suboptimal only if you're a flawless computer. In human terms, it's a better move because it carries less risk, easier to execute, and has the benefit of iframes. That's what OP laid out and the point of the discussion.

[BruhSFXn2]

Why is this even a discussion, dash atacks are cheap and well rewarding, whilst countering them is hard and complex. I mean, to dash atack you only have to press two buttons, to counter these two actions you have to feign an atack, parry the dash atack (fallible) and then light atack. There is actually no reason to not use the dodge atack, and it completely breaks the flow of dominion. If you are your team's good player, you will have to patiently feign an atack and hope your opponent falls for it, which might take a while.
The suggestion to have it so that you must dash away from the atack to be able to hit the enemy is great, since it adds complexity to the move, even if a little. and then maybe my hero's sword won't phisically hit the target but no damage be done.
I litterally verified my account just to comment on this, it's how garbage i think the move is, me and my friend are both assassin classes, he is an orochi, and immediately noticed how cancerous his atack was. this is just a testament to how urgently this needs changing.

[JKnu_teCH]

Not true with kensei,i`ts the opposite with him,also it`s a heavy.Very easy to bait cause he can`t cancel dash attacks.