Dash attacks break the game. | Forums

[Aarpian2]

If you're out of stamina you did something wrong.... but anyways, you can still dash when out of stamina, only downside is you can't spam it.

Dashing/dodging should cost stamina too like all other actions.
It's all about stamina managment ( should i attack or defend or regen some more stamina) except dashing, that's just spamming like a generic arcade fighting game.

So now I can keep you out of stamina without even having to hit you with the shield bash, just from you trying to avoid it?
Nice, sign me up.

[Knight_Raime]

This is a L2P issue. not a game issue. dash attacks give you the added benefit of knowing the direction the attack will come from. Not to mention you can guard break people who dash.
Making dodges require stamina would basically kill the assassins. as their defense is inferior to all other heros. their block isn't always up. Not to mention feints exist in the game. and certain attacks WILL target and chase someone dashing. I did it all the time as my conq.

And honestly you just sound like the worst person. "I don't use someone I like because it goes against my own personal made up honor code." Please get over yourself. You won't ever enjoy for honor let alone any other pvp game to the fullest if you seriously expect randoms to adhere to your "code."

[Derity]

This is a L2P issue. not a game issue. dash attacks give you the added benefit of knowing the direction the attack will come from. Not to mention you can guard break people who dash.
Making dodges require stamina would basically kill the assassins. as their defense is inferior to all other heros. their block isn't always up. Not to mention feints exist in the game. and certain attacks WILL target and chase someone dashing. I did it all the time as my conq.

And honestly you just sound like the worst person. "I don't use someone I like because it goes against my own personal made up honor code." Please get over yourself. You won't ever enjoy for honor let alone any other pvp game to the fullest if you seriously expect randoms to adhere to your "code."

Yeah, I'm a complete a-hole for choosing against using unbalanced characters. All of the Orochi's in Alpha 1, and the Valkyries in TT2 were valiant people.

Anyway, one quick question; So you believe it to be completely balanced that it is virtually impossible to punish any (good) assassin player when they completely consume all of their stamina?

[Knight_Raime]

Yeah, I'm a complete a-hole for choosing against using unbalanced characters. All of the Orochi's in Alpha 1, and the Valkyries in TT2 were valiant people.

Anyway, one quick question; So you believe it to be completely balanced that it is virtually impossible to punish any (good) assassin player when they completely consume all of their stamina?

Way to pigeon hole your sloppy argument. Orochi was imbalanced in the alpha. he wasn't in either beta. They removed what made him a problem (being able to cancel storm rush at any time during the attack and increased his stamina consumption and decreased his attack.) I can't speak on the valk as I wasn't apart of that test. and since we haven't seen what she's like now assuming she's still a problem is stupid.

Your question is also stacked. because "good" in your sentence can mean any imaginary situation that would make your feeble point "valid."
If you lack the ability to punish an assassin out of stamina then it's clearly your fault. there are attacks and combos that will track and follow someone who dashes. and as it's already been said more than once you can guard break someone dashing.

and well. You called yourself an a-hole. not me so.
Won't reply to you any further until you actually give a reasonable argument, cut the hyperbolic stacked statments, and recognize that it's possible to punish dashes and dash attacks.

[Derity]

Way to pigeon hole your sloppy argument. Orochi was imbalanced in the alpha. he wasn't in either beta. They removed what made him a problem (being able to cancel storm rush at any time during the attack and increased his stamina consumption and decreased his attack.) I can't speak on the valk as I wasn't apart of that test. and since we haven't seen what she's like now assuming she's still a problem is stupid.

Your question is also stacked. because "good" in your sentence can mean any imaginary situation that would make your feeble point "valid."
If you lack the ability to punish an assassin out of stamina then it's clearly your fault. there are attacks and combos that will track and follow someone who dashes. and as it's already been said more than once you can guard break someone dashing.

and well. You called yourself an a-hole. not me so.
Won't reply to you any further until you actually give a reasonable argument, cut the hyperbolic stacked statments, and recognize that it's possible to punish dashes and dash attacks.

I apologise if I offended you, it was not intended.

We all know that when Assassins are out of Stamina, that they can dash backwards and all around freely due to the speed and distance of their dashes and the fact that dashing in For Honor takes 0 Stamina. The dash mobility is extremely high on assassin classes compared to the other archetypes. Chasing down someone who is frantically dashing around is not so easy, your only option is to disengage and sprint towards them and attempt a Guardbreak, which is easily cancelled.

Compared to the other classes in the game, when out of Stamina, they do not have the option to create such distance from the opponent merely by dashing once or twice.

If you Guardbreak a Peacekeeper who is dashing backwards (Not sure about Orochi/Berserker- haven't tested yet), you will whiff the Guardbreak and they can Guardbreak you in return, you can do it right before they dash, but it is not react-able.

Dashing to avoid attacks is much easier than blocking attacks, not to mention Assassins now have 'Deflect' built into dashing and can dash faster in the Out of Stamina state than they can run.- all of this only add to my opinion to why I think dashing needs to have a cost.

On top of all this, in my opinion, classes in games should be balanced around multiple levels of play. My friends are not so great at For Honor, and when I played with them they all had problems with the same classes as each other - the Assassin classes. And in my opinion 0 Stamina dashing is a huge reason for this as they simply cannot keep up with the flow of those characters.

I am not asking for dashing to take huge chunks of Stamina on use, but what I would like to see is that small amounts of Stamina, are taken from dashing. This way spamming dashes outside of range waiting to react is less effective and spamming dash when out of stamina slightly increases the length of time it takes to recover to give the opponent a greater chance of punishing the player who exhausted their stamina pool.

Also, please do keep in mind that my suggestion of implementing Stamina usage on dash does not exclusively effect Assassins, it would affect all classes, however it would have a more potent effect on Assassins as they are the classes that are most effective at dash abuse.

[Knight_Raime]

I apologise if I offended you, it was not intended.

We all know that when Assassins are out of Stamina, that they can dash backwards and all around freely due to the speed and distance of their dashes and the fact that dashing in For Honor takes 0 Stamina. The dash mobility is extremely high on assassin classes compared to the other archetypes. Chasing down someone who is frantically dashing around is not so easy, your only option is to disengage and sprint towards them and attempt a Guardbreak, which is easily cancelled.

Compared to the other classes in the game, when out of Stamina, they do not have the option to create such distance from the opponent merely by dashing once or twice.

If you Guardbreak a Peacekeeper who is dashing backwards (Not sure about Orochi/Berserker- haven't tested yet), you will whiff the Guardbreak and they can Guardbreak you in return, you can do it right before they dash, but it is not react-able.

Dashing to avoid attacks is much easier than blocking attacks, not to mention Assassins now have 'Deflect' built into dashing and can dash faster in the Out of Stamina state than they can run.- all of this only add to my opinion to why I think dashing needs to have a cost.

On top of all this, in my opinion, classes in games should be balanced around multiple levels of play. My friends are not so great at For Honor, and when I played with them they all had problems with the same classes as each other - the Assassin classes. And in my opinion 0 Stamina dashing is a huge reason for this as they simply cannot keep up with the flow of those characters.

I am not asking for dashing to take huge chunks of Stamina on use, but what I would like to see is that small amounts of Stamina, are taken from dashing. This way spamming dashes outside of range waiting to react is less effective and spamming dash when out of stamina slightly increases the length of time it takes to recover to give the opponent a greater chance of punishing the player who exhausted their stamina pool.

Also, please do keep in mind that my suggestion of implementing Stamina usage on dash does not exclusively effect Assassins, it would affect all classes, however it would have a more potent effect on Assassins as they are the classes that are most effective at dash abuse.

While other classes don't have the mobility or dash distance of assassins they DO have the ability to keep their guard up constantly. Assassins don't. so this nerf would hurt them more than other classes. which is a problem. Back dashes are much harder to GB yes. But side dashes are easily GBed.

The closest i'd be willing to go is to allow dashing to be "less effective" when out of stamina. But not out right removing them.

[Derity]

While other classes don't have the mobility or dash distance of assassins they DO have the ability to keep their guard up constantly. Assassins don't. so this nerf would hurt them more than other classes. which is a problem. Back dashes are much harder to GB yes. But side dashes are easily GBed.

The closest i'd be willing to go is to allow dashing to be "less effective" when out of stamina. But not out right removing them.

I think you got me wrong, I never said that running out of stamina should make you not be able to dash, you should absolutely still be able to dash, but basically the idea is that it takes stamina, so when you dash when you're out of stamina it essentially just delays how long it will take to recover your stamina, similar to how attacking works when you're out of stamina, you can still attack (albeit slowly) but you're also delaying how long it will take to recover.

[Knight_Raime]

I think you got me wrong, I never said that running out of stamina should make you not be able to dash, you should absolutely still be able to dash, but basically the idea is that it takes stamina, so when you dash when you're out of stamina it essentially just delays how long it will take to recover your stamina, similar to how attacking works when you're out of stamina, you can still attack (albeit slowly) but you're also delaying how long it will take to recover.

I guess I misunderstood your post then. I don't agree with that change. When I said dashing would be less effective out of stamina I meant fewer (if any I frames) on the dashes and less dash distance. That way someone who is superb at timing can still dodge to avoid as an assassin but players now who spam it won't be able to.

My problem with your preposed solution is it'll heavily tilt the fight one of two ways. Either the assassin is good enough to continually dodge. But because it would take the assassin forever to get stamina back you drag out the fight longer than it needs to be.

OR the assassin isn't good enough at dodging and any attempt will lengthen the match. Not to mention the opponent will pick up on the persons poor dodging and steam roll them.

It is true that a good player will be harder to counter when they dash around. But you have to keep in mind that a majority of players are not that good. and in top level play (from what i've seen) they don't spam dashes because there isn't a need. the opponent reacts to moves they make and stays defensive most of the time.

[Delectable_Sin]

Um, if someone dashes into the wrong direction, they take the full attack. So if you would actually feint, you'd render random dashes not only worthless, but actually detrimental to the person performing them.

Seriously, try learning the game before you go and complain about it. If someone is able to randomly dodge all of your stuff, you're most likely just spamming downward power attacks.