How to negate the "Never Attack First" Meta | Forums

[Pariah695]

You would just need to nerf guard-break.
For example:
If you made it so guard-break cannot be countered, you could slow it down, reduce the stun-time, and make it so you CAN counter the throw.

So if someone guard-breaks you, you cannot counter, but if they then press Guard-Break a 2nd time to throw you, you COULD counter so you are not thrown.

That's actually a pretty good idea. But you would need to do something to stop someone from just spamming the button to stop from getting thrown. Like give them one chance to get out of the throw, if they miss it then the rest of their inputs do nothing. And either make the timing very tight, or offer some way to change the timing somewhat when you throw someone. Like hold the button for a delayed push.

[Raazeikel]

You would just need to nerf guard-break.
For example:
If you made it so guard-break cannot be countered, you could slow it down, reduce the stun-time, and make it so you CAN counter the throw.

So if someone guard-breaks you, you cannot counter, but if they then press Guard-Break a 2nd time to throw you, you COULD counter so you are not thrown.

Well, you made that seem like an obvious solution.

I believe that you're onto something there. The throws are the most deadly thing about guard breaks.

[Pariah695]

The only thing about that idea that's problematic is that the only things that can counter guard break are light attacks, and certain zone attacks. Everything else will lose to it. That would make spamming it really prevalent. It needs more ways to avoid it. I would say they should fix how derpy it is when both players guard break at the same time, and make that consistently bounce both players off, and make backdashes immune to guard break. Not side dashes, then they would be too difficult to punish otherwise.

[Arnaldo27]

I simply can't think how I could be able to win playing as Rider or any other slow class vs PK or Berserker if your suggestions would be applied. Maybe you are right guys and there is an issue with invencible defense but if something will be changed, I only hope that it won't make assesins OP. It would really destroy the game for me.

[nestharus]

Just remove parries/deflects and problem solved? Nothing should guarantee damage.

[Arnaldo27]

Just remove parries/deflects and problem solved? Nothing should guarantee damage.

This won't fix anything and it only would bring more issues.

[nestharus]

You shouldn't have an "uber" block that takes more skill. Eventually, everyone will be able to do the uber block against everything, making the light block pointless. There should only be one type of block.

[Fadango.]

What if you could feint a guard break? Feint just out of range and punish the whiffed counter, or feint it in range and use a light to counter their attempt? If the feint happens late into the animation you should still be able to punish with lights.

[xSol Swifty 02]

and make backdashes immune to guard break

Just a thought without the knowledge to foresee if it would be a problem, but what about back heavies also being immune.
I think every character has a back heavy like Orochi just without the step forward at the end.
I think they would need to change the back heavy so it would hit, but only guard breaks? like the guard breaks range is so short it misses the back heavy, but any other attack would connect first before the back heavy comes out.

[Pariah695]

The problem with parries is not the guaranteed damage, it's that they're very easy and can be made relatively safe. I don't think there's a simple way to fix this game, one fix just moves the issue to another one of the game's many many problems.

Start with parry feinting. That needs to go. You should have to commit to your parry, and get punished if you get baited into it. I think this can be fixed by making brief period where after feinting you are unable to block, dodge, or counter guard break, but you can still attack. Make the window large enough that under all circumstances if you read your opponent's parry and feinted, you can punish him.

But Parries are still very easy to do. Meaning non-feintable attacks, lights, Raider unblockable, etc, are still worthless. So you also need to make the timing tighter so you can't so easily parry everything.

Now your opponent cannot defend against your attacks and turn them into damage against you, but they can still just defend against all of your attacks. It's still ridiculously hard just to hit a guy. Now this needs fixing.

So obviously the guard break needs to be buffed so it actually does what it's called. My thoughts are to make it unreactable, but make it less rewarding. Less stun time, meaning less damage since you probably won't be able to land hards. And Flatlander57's suggestion about making the throw counterable is just genius. One chance tight timing lets you escape from the throw after guard break.

But now that guard breaks are unreactable, they're going to get spammed. They are only beaten by lights, certain zone attacks, and a GB counter if you can read it in this new system. There need to be more counters to it so it doesn't have so much coverage against all the options. So I think backdashes should be immune to guard break.

Even with this however, it doesn't change that you still can't simply attack your enemy. You MUST do some kind of tricky maneuver. Basic combat remains irrelevant. So now that needs to be fixed. Honestly to me, the only fix I can see is that every character needs to be given unreactable attacks of some kind. Perhaps a basic quick attack that you can perform in any direction, incredibly short range, but has no combo potential or follow-ups except possibly character specific traits, but never with other quick attacks. And I'd also say they need to speed up all attacks in general so that you can't react to lights so reliably. Still doable, but tougher.

At the bear minimum I think stuff like this would at the very least end the dull stalemates and rock, paper, scissors at high level. But there's probably a bunch of other problems that would crop up that I couldn't imagine. And surely every character would need to be rebalanced. There are no quick fixes for this game.