How to negate the "Never Attack First" Meta | Forums

[SeferFantasy1]

Or just remove Parry, parry is the freaking problem. And increase heavy damage so someone who ONLY blocks, will eventually die.

I hate all of you saying "mind games, mind games, mind games..." SCREW THE TURTLE. The devs didn't plan on this ****, we wernt given all these different combos to NOT use. Hell berserker is listed as a "harasser" and the showcase video for him shows him BERSERKERING other people. NON STOP ATTACKS. They didn't intend ppl to just say "hey, **** 90% of the game, im just gonna parry!" Its not fun, its boring, its ****ty, and its killed half the god damn population of the game already.

GET. RID. OF. PARRY.

[WaterRUSO]

They're nerfing defence, whether you like it or not. Now you poor boys can stop turtling behind your sword/shield all game making us sleep. No one enjoys fighting you, no one wants to fight you. Drawing out a game for 3 minutes playing like a ***** doesn't make you good at the game, it doesn't make you patient, it doesn't make you smart. It just makes you a ****ing insufferable ****.

[EmeraldCthulhu]

They're nerfing defence, whether you like it or not. Now you poor boys can stop turtling behind your sword/shield all game making us sleep. No one enjoys fighting you, no one wants to fight you. Drawing out a game for 3 minutes playing like a ***** doesn't make you good at the game, it doesn't make you patient, it doesn't make you smart. It just makes you a ****ing insufferable ****.

But fighting light attack/dodge spammers is fine?

The problem about boosting attack is that assassins will be even better then they are. Even if this kind of solution would fix higher skill "turtle"meta, it's quite probable that it would at the same time kill the game on lower skill levels. And low skill players are as important as the high level ones - maybe even more, as there's more of them.

On low levels, is not defence that's king, it's light attack/dodge attack spam. Make it even stronger and you might hurt the game a lot.

[Netcode_err_404]

But fighting light attack/dodge spammers is fine?

The problem about boosting attack is that assassins will be even better then they are. Even if this kind of solution would fix higher skill "turtle"meta, it's quite probable that it would at the same time kill the game on lower skill levels. And low skill players are as important as the high level ones - maybe even more, as there's more of them.

On low levels, is not defence that's king, it's light attack/dodge attack spam. Make it even stronger and you might hurt the game a lot.

True,but fast attack spam is just assassin's stuff.

Once you make the game PLAYABLE again, you can balance each class. After all, only 3 assassins are in the game, shoudn't be too hard balance them properly


Right now, in my opinion the top priority is to make this game a fighting game. Right now, pvp means passive vs passive.

Too many duels just become a wait game.

I do not attack, you do not attack, we spend 4 minutes feinting and Gb spamming till timer expires, or one of us gets bored and quit.

[GenLiu]

Or just remove Parry, parry is the freaking problem. And increase heavy damage so someone who ONLY blocks, will eventually die.

I hate all of you saying "mind games, mind games, mind games..." SCREW THE TURTLE. The devs didn't plan on this ****, we wernt given all these different combos to NOT use. Hell berserker is listed as a "harasser" and the showcase video for him shows him BERSERKERING other people. NON STOP ATTACKS. They didn't intend ppl to just say "hey, **** 90% of the game, im just gonna parry!" Its not fun, its boring, its ****ty, and its killed half the god damn population of the game already.

GET. RID. OF. PARRY.

Sure, this is not going to turn the game into an unblockable spamming party...
More seriously, the parry system is a great one which have to stay in the game but just need to be reworked so it doesn't connects on every attacks (or at least don't give the usual benefits if it does on certain moves like light attacks or key moves that are vital to run the offense of the different characters in the game).

[WaterRUSO]

But fighting light attack/dodge spammers is fine?

The problem about boosting attack is that assassins will be even better then they are. Even if this kind of solution would fix higher skill "turtle"meta, it's quite probable that it would at the same time kill the game on lower skill levels. And low skill players are as important as the high level ones - maybe even more, as there's more of them.

On low levels, is not defence that's king, it's light attack/dodge attack spam. Make it even stronger and you might hurt the game a lot.

Huh? Assassins already dominate lower levels, so what? Especially Peacekeeper who we all know is OP. I am sure they would balance out the attack oriented classes. Have you seen Berserker? An attack oriented hero that can't even do anything because It's too easy to parry and block all of his attacks, It's ridiculous.

[Netcode_err_404]

Huh? Assassins already dominate lower levels, so what? Especially Peacekeeper who we all know is OP. I am sure they would balance out the attack oriented classes. Have you seen Berserker? An attack oriented hero that can't even do anything because It's too easy to parry and block all of his attacks, It's ridiculous.

What I said, rework the gameplay, then we can buffs/nerfs heroes according to feedbacks.

[WaterRUSO]

What I said, rework the gameplay, then we can buffs/nerfs heroes according to feedbacks.

Personally I think:

Dodging should cost stamina (like in every other game)
Blocking should cost stamina (like in every other game)

Not sure why the devs decided to be unique in this part.

[Mjolnir1337]

Personally I think:

Dodging should cost stamina (like in every other game)
Blocking should cost stamina (like in every other game)

Not sure why the devs decided to be unique in this part.

I agree on face value, however then you run into issues where classes who have unblockables become vastly OP. The only way to not get hit by them atm is to dodge/parry.

When you are out of stam, you cant parry, so you are left with dodging. Thats why they made dodge not cost, so you can dodge backwards to create distance OR side-dodge to avoid unblockables.

Imagine Warlord spamming headbutt combo over and over if you ever got out of stamina once.



I do agree about blocking though, and maybe make dodge+action cost MORE stamina (like a side-roll into light attack with assassins). If blocking costs stamina, that would help people not turtle so much.

I think a BIG one they could do is make feints not cost stamina though. This would allow players to spam feints if they wanted. There is already risk/reward to feints. If you feint a heavy, you are subject to being hit while feinting AND it costs stamina. A "double negative" with what reward? Baiting a heavy -> A parry?

The only liability I see with feints not costing stamina is players will feint all day long, but thats a GOOD thing IMO as feints create openings to attack. Either light attacks or GBs.


This is what I would do:
- blocking costs stamina (light attacks would be negligible, heavy attacks should cost a lot).
- feints no longer cost stamina OR atleast significant reduction in stamina cost.

I would see what that does for the game. Then proceed.

[WaterRUSO]

I agree on face value, however then you run into issues where classes who have unblockables become vastly OP. The only way to not get hit by them atm is to dodge/parry.

When you are out of stam, you cant parry, so you are left with dodging. Thats why they made dodge not cost, so you can dodge backwards to create distance OR side-dodge to avoid unblockables.

Imagine Warlord spamming headbutt combo over and over if you ever got out of stamina once.



I do agree about blocking though, and maybe make dodge+action cost MORE stamina (like a side-roll into light attack with assassins). If blocking costs stamina, that would help people not turtle so much.

I think a BIG one they could do is make feints not cost stamina though. This would allow players to spam feints if they wanted. There is already risk/reward to feints. If you feint a heavy, you are subject to being hit while feinting AND it costs stamina. A "double negative" with what reward? Baiting a heavy -> A parry?

The only liability I see with feints not costing stamina is players will feint all day long, but thats a GOOD thing IMO as feints create openings to attack. Either light attacks or GBs.


This is what I would do:
- blocking costs stamina (light attacks would be negligible, heavy attacks should cost a lot).
- feints no longer cost stamina OR atleast significant reduction in stamina cost.

I would see what that does for the game. Then proceed.

No, I don't want to see Raider spamming unblockable feints. That's annoying. Definitely blocking needs to drain stamina, and I don't think you should be able to block 3 directions like the Warlord, that's ridiculous considering there's only 3 sides to attack from anyways.