How to negate the "Never Attack First" Meta | Forums

[GregoryMcFlint]

For the people who are super "defensive" on your claims that aggressive play is viable, I sure love the irony.

Also, $5 sounds a lot more cost effective for a staring simulator than $60.

SEE YOU ON THE RP FIELDS!

[Kav0rk4]

That's what Ubisoft thought and they were proven wrong. Frame advantage from a feint isn't big enough to guarantee a hit, it's that simple.

Lag shouldn't be an issue here, because it doesn't affect the host and it won't be present iin a tournament setting.

Anyway what's your point here? You want Ubi to keep feints broken and useless? Cause I'm pretty sure they wanted them to force the defending player to commit - and they don't.

How where they proven wrong? Where is your data to back up these claims?

But ASSUMING that's so the fix is simple. Add block chip damage and increase the feint window.

[Peligrad]

Literally not an argument. You're using anecdotal evidence and giving us your match history when 99,9% of people can't even play the game properly.

But hey, you seem to be doing well, so you're the right person to ask: please provide us with an example of a real 50/50 that can't be countered on reaction. You've been "playing the aggressor", so this surely won't be a problem, right?

First off, you're right. Not an argument. I'm not stating an argument. I'm stating fact. FACT is that I played aggressor successfully all freaking Beta long despite you kids saying it isn't possible. POINT. SET. MATCH. GG. End of thread.

The game is full of 50/50s...

Conqueror charged heavy.

Opponent has 3 options attack, deflect/parry, or GB. only 2 will result in damage.

If opponent GBs and conq doesn't attack GB is successful.
If opponent GBs and conq attacks opponent is hit with charged heavy.

Opponent can go into range and try to deflect/parry the heavy. Attack comes in at increased speed and is fairly difficult to parry/deflect especially if conq switches stances irregularly.

Opponent can go for an attack to interrupt the charged heavy. If blocked he gets hit in the face with charged heavy.

If opponent goes for deflect/parry then conq can break charged heavy and go straight into a GB.

Warden's shoulder charge.

Warden has 3 options and can guess the reaction to counter the opponent's reaction. Defender only has 2 options that deal damage.

1: Warden can follow through with the charge. The defender must dodge or attack to avoid this.

2: Warden can cancel the charge into a parry. If the defender attacks to interrupt the charge he gets parried.

3: Warden can cancel the charge into a GB. If the defender dodges GB connects.

Also... if the system works for 99.9% of the players... who the f**k cares about the .1%?

You can't expect Ubi to change core mechanics of their game to satisfy .1% of the player base.

That is just straight up unreasonable.

If you are that .1% and you don't like the duel mechanics. Go play a different format or GTFO. No one will miss you.

[NiceBoatUS]

How where they proven wrong? Where is your data to back up these claims?

But ASSUMING that's so the fix is simple. Add block chip damage and increase the feint window.

There are plenty of clips with people reacting to feints followed by a light attacks, so it kinda proves that the framedata makes it possible.

If it's possible, then it can be made consistent with enough training.

And yes, the fix is simple. I mean we're talking a couple of frames here, but it's really important for high level play.

@Peligrad
All of the "50/50s" you provided can be reacted to, so by definition they aren't 50/50s.

Literally nobody is talking about overhauling the whole system, it simply requires a minor fix that you probably wouldn't even notice because you don't seem to unerstand how the game works.

And it's not about 0.1% of the players, it's about 99.9% emulating proper play once tournament footage becomes available. If every scrublet starts emulating the "never attack" playstyle than guess what, the game won't be very enjoyable for anyone.

[YOGZULA]

The correct solution is to change how rewarding parrying is.

the game is already balanced enough for low level play. In fact, aggression dominates low level play where blocking is already difficult enough for most people and so is counter guard breaks or anything of that nature. Just throw out a lot of attacks and you'll kill people. Making aggression better, or making defense worse at a basic level makes the game less fun for lesser skilled players. The solution is to target the high skill defense techniques like parrying and deflecting. That's the core of the problem and I wish more people would see that so it could be addressed asap

[Robbeeeen]

The only 50/50 currently in the game is the Warden shouldercharge. Your conqueror example is no 50/50 because it can be parried consistently.


There are several threads in this forum in different categories popping up, all several pages long, all about this exact issue.. Many people already see it..

Take into account that most players only had this one weekend of practice - with time more and more people will be able to parry every attack in the game 90% of the time or more.



The only way to disagree with the problem is if you claim that top-level players cannot parry most, if not all, attacks in the game consistently - which is, after looking at streams or playing the game yourself at high level, a false claim.


Another thing is that a fix would not affect people who disagree with the issue - because a fix would target the parry mechanic, which according to you is already a rare occurence and can be countered.

[Breikas.]

This is indeed a real problem.

How about this for light attacks:

• A light attack can't be parried
• A light attack doesn't get staggered on block, so you can continue your chain
• A light attack also does chip damage when blocked

This is how it's done in other fighters, the opening should come after the light combo, where the players get reset on offensive and defensive. After the chain it's up to the defender or the attacker to be aggressive or defensive, but defensive comes at the cost of chip damage.

[NiceBoatUS]

Let's identify the problem here.
Feint doesn't work as intended and doesn't force 50/50s.
Explanation: you can cancel your parry heavy to block from a different direction.
Solution: move heavy attack cancel a few frames towards the end of the animation.

There, suddenly the game is working again.

The most hilarious part is the amount of people that don't even understand what we're talking about going mad about the idea of an adjustment they wouldn't even notice.

Perhaps GB also needs a similar treatment, but to be honest it'd be perfectly reasonable to fix parry/feint and simply observe the meta for a few weeks.



Oh, and by the way, the Warden shoulder charge isn't a 50/50 because roll-backdash is a thing and it simply defeats all the offensive options.

[Dreamsweeps]

I suggest speed up the game with 53,2% and maby remove UI

[Arnaldo27]

This is indeed a real problem.

How about this for light attacks:

• A light attack can't be parried
• A light attack doesn't get staggered on block, so you can continue your chain
• A light attack also does chip damage when blocked

This is how it's done in other fighters, the opening should come after the light combo, where the players get reset on offensive and defensive. After the chain it's up to the defender or the attacker to be aggressive or defensive, but defensive comes at the cost of chip damage.

This would be a huge advantages for faster classes.