How to negate the "Never Attack First" Meta | Forums

[YOGZULA]

Parrying and deflecting are simply too rewarding. A good defense should be rewarded by not taking damage. Defense should not be rewarded by DEALING damage - especially not untechable damage. I'm 100% fine with the idea of a deflect or a parry spinning the momentum in favor of the defender, forcing the attacker into a defensive position. That's perfectly fine. The fact that parrying and deflecting are the only two untechable attacks in the game is really stupid, especially since they are both defensive options.

[Ryumanjisen]

If he's gb on reaction you're not doing a good job on pressuring him or are being too predictable. Maybe a feint to guard break will be a good strategy. I haven't had a consistent problem with people countering my gb.

On the video flatlander posted, the Orochi tried absolutely everything to break the Warden's defense: feints into lights, feints into heavys, feints into gb, DOUBLE feints... nothing worked.

Of course you haven't had a consistent problem, as neither did I. The game is still young, we are developing our skills. But when the meta evolves, if the good players can defend against ANYTHING... we're going to have a problem.

[GregoryMcFlint]

If theres one thing that will prevent this from becoming too much of an issue (besides feints and unblockables) is the fact that it requires someone to want to get very good at the game but have no intention of ever winning. Who really thinks like that?

Let me show you who thinks like that! http://steamcharts.com/app/225600

[nSidezz]

Let's stop this nonsense. I thought like you before but I was wrong. Look at this video:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121616748

This guy has won 176 of 177 duels and he is a pretty aggressive player. The only duel he has lost was versus a light attack spammer. Thanks of god Ubisoft ignored our suggestions because we don't have any idea about this game yet.

That guy is not even playing against decent enemies nor is he super good, he has this winrate because he alt+f4's on a potential loss, nothing more nothing less.

[Ryumanjisen]

If theres one thing that will prevent this from becoming too much of an issue (besides feints and unblockables) is the fact that it requires someone to want to get very good at the game but have no intention of ever winning. Who really thinks like that?

The question is very simple: any high level player in a competitive tournament.

Let's suppose you are on a grand final. On the very last round, where a pot of, say... 1000$ goes to the winner. Your rival lands a couple of combos, and you're on the verge of defeat. You know that, if you resort to a heavy defense style, you will not win, but will not lose either. And a tie will problably mean another chance to get that prize. What would you do?

Now. I know this is an EXTREME example, but any good player with a competitive mindset would do it even in casual matches. This hole in the game's balance can potentially destroy any hope for getting a competitive scene.

[Jinresh]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121546322

It is 100% true that "defensive" play is invincible.

If me and Eiffel simply perfect this, and go into the next tournement, we can literally ruin the tournament by making every game a Tie. So the tournament never moves forward. You are literally invincible in For Honor if you play correctly and don't attack. Attacking is risky, defending is 100% safe.

This is the best video demonstrating the problem the OP was referring to. Having watched it twice, there honestly isn't anything I can say that the Orochi could've done better or differently to actually win.

[YOGZULA]

and the warden wasn't even parrying in that example. You could play that heavy defensive style of play and go for parries which are also completely safe. Even if you get baited, you feint your attack and go right back into the defensive.

[Ryumanjisen]

and the warden wasn't even parrying in that example. You could play that heavy defensive style of play and go for parries which are also completely safe. Even if you get baited, you feint your attack and go right back into the defensive.

I don't think you can feint a heavy on reaction... but, then again, didn't think you could gb counter on reaction. If that's the case, the game seriously need some reworking on his defense mechanics.

[YOGZULA]

you learn the timing to parry and go for it. if you're wrong and get baited into swinging, you mash E to feint. You can definitely parry and counter-guard break on reaction though

[RazhemUplay]

I have to echo that defense is king. In the whole weekend I only faced 3 guys in duels capable of it and it wasn't perfect and they still weren't fully cagey, but they made all engagements almost be suicide, I did some feinting and got some results from that sometimes, but not always. Feinting into guardbreak means nothing since geardbreak always has the same timing to break, so someone who has that reaction to a T, will never really get guardblocked reliably outside of the parry guardblock or dodge guardblock.

Basically, the moment you know that you CANNOT land an attack against somebody that plays defensive and are forced to use feints to open him up, you are only really exposing yourself to getting parried and punished heavily. If your feint works you'll get a light in once in a while, if it fails, it gets blocked and if it gets parried, you take double the damage you would have made, which again goes back to attacking being more dangerous than defending after a certain point. This of course means nothing when people don't have perfect blocking instincts or where latency is crap and precision play goes out the window and spam changeups become king. But it definitely will be an issue the more people play and in such a short time, it's amazing to see people who already have a lot of the timings to a T.