There is no counter to dodge spam, and it ruins combat. | Forums

[Zywroh]

I've been playing the Conqueror for probably about 18 hours myself and I agree, I block/parry an attack and they just roll away when I try anything and either punch back after my slow swing or roll away easily and still have more stamina. =/

[Ryumanjisen]

Let's be clear here. After a succesful parry (not a block, a parry) ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break. If you can't do it, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break, the ones with longs weapons (namely the Nobushi and the Kensei) but that depends on the move you did parry. On the rest of the cast, is a guarantedd guard break.

[Velkamit]

Let's be clear here. After a succesful parry (not a block, a parry) ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break. If you can't do it, you're doing it wrong. Plain and simple.

EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break, the ones with longs weapons (namely the Nobushi and the Kensei) but that depends on the move you did parry. On the rest of the cast, is a guarantedd guard break.

Look at this, you can't even get the first part right:

ANY character get a GUARANTEED guard break.

EDIT FOR CORRECTION: There are SOME characters who you can't guard break

Here's another correction, you wrong again. You can't just be wrong and tell me I'm doing it wrong, then admit you're wrong and tell me I'm still wrong.


You guys are shameful.

[Gethseme]

Look at this, you can't even get the first part right:






Here's another correction, you wrong again. You can't just be wrong and tell me I'm doing it wrong, then admit you're wrong and tell me I'm still wrong.


You guys are shameful.

Then I will tell you. You're doing it wrong. I have zero problems with dodge spam/runners. If you wanna dodge backwards, I'll wait you out. If you run, I will wait you out. If you ROLL, you are burning stamina for that roll. I play almost exclusively Conq right now and i have absolutely zero problems wrecking someone who dodge spams.

If you roll backwards, then obviously I'm winning the fight and if you want to run the clock down, you can. I'll win in the end with more HP, otherwise why are you running around stalling?

I've fought several runners and dodge spammers. I just sit there and play on my phone till they decide they want to fight. As Conq I play very passive, and I'm quite good at countering Guard breaks. I'm usually the one with the most HP, unless I made a grave mistake in the match.

One final note, the pursuer ALWAYS catches the runner, if they have any skill and wit. The pursuer can ALWAYS take the shortest path to catch a runner. Even if they run for hours, no matter how they try to twist and turn, the pursuer always can take the shortest path to catch them.

The above guy is right, with the exception of a couple moves by specific classes, EVERY character can be guaranteed guard broken, with ZERO chance to dodge/roll, or even counter guard break, after a parry. And those moves are almost exclusively near max range attacks, or attacks made while walking backwards and attacking, with the Nobushi, Kensei, and Warden. And that mostly has to do with the animation of the parry and the distance they were from you when you initiate the parry.

[Velkamit]

I have zero problems with dodge spam/runners. If you wanna dodge backwards, I'll wait you out. If you run, I will wait you out.

So you can't do anything about it other than wait, my point exactly.


And to clarify, I'm talking about 1v1 and 2v2 where the only objective is to beat your opponent.



And guys, for the sake my sanity, please stop saying "EVERY CHARACTER CAN" followed by or prefaced by "WITH EXCEPTIONS" because that is pointless. If you want to phrase it that way then it is "most characters can".

[Ryumanjisen]

You sure are dense, my friend. I added the addendum (and didn't edit the first paragraph) because I wanted to be honest, You don't know how to properly play this game, and that's fine: we were at that point at the beggining. But if you wrongly blame the mechanics, your game will not improve. And that's fine, too, as long as you aware of it.

[Gethseme]

There is nothing wrong with saying all with exceptions listed. That's proper english and proper word usage. You don't have to like it, but it's still correct. If there are 1000 actions, and 995 result in one thing, that's not "most", that's all except 5.

Also, since it truly is a L2P issue, here's something you should read. If you can't do it still, then it's YOUR fault. Learn to play, stop calling stuff "ruined" or "no counterplay" when there IS counterplay. Refusal to do so is just making yourself into the typical scrub, as in the person that calls things "cheap" or "OP" without learning to counter them and learning to use the tools required to win. The only time the below listed paragraph doesn't work is against max range attacks from classes with long weapons, and then it usually STILL requries them to be holding S/Down on left stick WHILE attacking to back away while making the attack for the GB not to autodash and grab.

You need to guard break in the very first frames after you parry. If you guard break just as you finish your parry animation, your character will dash forward and guard break. You don't have to press any direction with the movement keys. The game just assists you with a dash guard break because you parried. If you miss the frame window, you will just guard break the air in front of you with no dash forward, and you'll get punished.

Practice the timing in practice mode vs level 1 bot and you'll see the huge dash forward that automatically happens after you parry then guard break. All classes will do this, but not all classes can benefit as much from a guard break.

It's worth noting that attacks parried from very long range can't be reached with the dashing guard break. The best example of this is the Nobushi who pokes from so far away, that a parry won't get you a guard break. Other classes can poke at you from the tip of their long range attack and avoid the guard break, but this isn't that common. Typically you can guard break almost any class after parrying their attack, and this is almost always the most punishing followup to a parry. Whether or not this is the best way to implement rewarding a parry is another story, but this is direction that Ubisoft is currently running with the game.

[Altair_Snake]

The roll can avoid the GB. As to the rest... you're probably not buffing your inputs to act as quickly as you can.

Also, the dodges can feel OP when in some cases they work against all diretcions of your attacks. So, maybe this legit frustration is making you perceive somethings with a bias.

One very important thing to consider is the timing of the dodge, which can be standardized in some situations, such as: you hit him witha s pecific attack and he dodges as soon as he can... Some set ups like these can result in dodges that work against all your attack options and attack you with the side stepping move before you can GB them to counter the side step. So, in these set ups, you are forced to defend, even if in theory it seemed like you were in a good situation to continue to attack.

[Velkamit]

The roll can avoid the GB.

Correct. That is my point. that leaves 0 counterplay.

you're probably not buffing your inputs to act as quickly as you can.

I am, so this issue could be (which none of you address ever despite me saying it several times) a CONNECTION or P2P issue. Which again I've stated. But that also leaves no room for counter play.


@Gethseme

I want you to look real careful at this section of what you quoted to me:

t's worth noting that attacks parried from very long range can't be reached with the dashing guard break. The best example of this is the Nobushi who pokes from so far away, that a parry won't get you a guard break. Other classes can poke at you from the tip of their long range attack and avoid the guard break, but this isn't that common. .

A lot of you guys are acting like I just refused to try new tactics.

I try to guard break after a parry, a lot. I've tried it a lot. It either doesn't work, or this is a connection issue.

I've spent time with other players, literally just doing rounds of parries/deflects for the sake of practice. I've discussed these issues over skype with other players who have the same problem in real time playing the game.


I'm sorry I'm so bad and you guys are so much better than me. I wish I could guardbreak people who break guard mode and roll away. But I can't, I'm not gud like u guize

[Gethseme]

The roll can avoid the GB. As to the rest... you're probably not buffing your inputs to act as quickly as you can.

Also, the dodges can feel OP when in some cases they work against all diretcions of your attacks. So, maybe this legit frustration is making you perceive somethings with a bias.

One very important thing to consider is the timing of the dodge, which can be standardized in some situations, such as: you hit him witha s pecific attack and he dodges as soon as he can... Some set ups like these can result in dodges that work against all your attack options and attack you with the side stepping move before you can GB them to counter the side step. So, in these set ups, you are forced to defend, even if in theory it seemed like you were in a good situation to continue to attack.

Just tested this with a friend. If you immediately after the parry input the GB, it will go off, they cannot dash/roll out of it. Yes, Rolls CAN avoid GBs. No, Rolls cannot be input while you're in the Parried animation, as in when you've BEEN parried. You can dodge and backroll away if you're just blocked, though. But a parry? I just tested with a friend 10 times, him doing nothing but spamming spacebar repeatedly after inputting the heavy attack, and when I parried, I immediately hit MMB to guard break, my character dashed forward automatically and connected the guard break.

We THEN tested, since we confirmed it is NOT possible to dodge/roll after being parried by a chained Guard Break (which is what it is, it's chaining a GB to a parry), if he can tech it. And after about 20 or so attempts, he could not tech my chained GB. So, Velkamit, you can be sarcastic about your "I'm sorry I'm so bad and you guys are so much better than me. I wish I could guardbreak people who break guard mode and roll away. But I can't, I'm not gud like u guize", but it is just you. That or your game is busted and you need to reinstall/check game file integrity/check your internet, because I just did it multiple times.

And no, we didn't test this with the entire cast, just with him on his Warden and me as my Conq. I don't know if it's a specific class issue, but I can consistantly chain into a GB from my parries, and my opponent cannot tech nor dodge/roll it, it's guaranteed.