Raider Viability | Forums

[pongkrit03]

I started feeling pointless to discuss here so let wait and see

What so mad? I agree with the lad. Atm i Have 2,9 KDA ratio with raider and have had major success in all game-modes. I dont know why you all are so mad about his mechanics...

Read the art of war , it will learn you to adapt your strategics to each individual battle instead of being mad that your dream-combo does not slay all your foes in the same manor every time.

And tbh there are 11 other classes 2 play IF you dont like him. It is too early to call for buffs/nerfs when theres not nearly enough statistics to go through. Lets await some real numbers first.

Meanwhile i'll continue staying a true Viking .

Peace out // Raider is my mainguy <3

I didn't mad. Why did you think I am mad anyway ?. I just simply told him to test other characters so that he can compare with Raider.

I was playing Raider before, and I think I have more K/D than you in beta test. However, after i tested Peacekeeper and Orochi, I was much stronger. My friend who can fight 1v1 with me closely, could not keep up with me anymore.

1. I am not talking about 1 heavy but heavy into unblockable for 95 dmg.

2. Wall carry (forward throw of the raider) decreases the stamina to 20% and prevents stamina regeneration after the daze ends for ~1.5s
After wall carry you will do light into unblockable chain and feint it. He will either dodge/roll or parry and you can punish both. If your enemy is a punk just let it go through and annihilate him straight.

Nope it is only 1 heavy. Unblockable is not guarantee, enemy can parry or dodge away.

We are talking about guarantee hit here, not your feint Technic.

[TTVPappusGaming]

I started feeling pointless to discuss here so let wait and see






I didn't mad. Why did you think I am mad anyway ?. I just simply told him to test other characters so that he can compare with Raider.

I was playing Raider before, and I think I have more K/D than you in beta test. However, after i tested Peacekeeper and Orochi, I was much stronger. My friend who can fight 1v1 with me closely, could not keep up with me anymore.





Nope it is only 1 heavy. Unblockable is not guarantee, enemy can parry or dodge away.

We are talking about guarantee hit here, not your feint Technic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Lj30koihc

Those are actual combos. No dodging possible. Don't blame me if you don't even know anymore what you are talking about. The feint technique works because the enemy can react in case you don't notice the elephant in the room, but he has to react too and we can punish accordingly to keep high pressure up.

[Titzi-]

What is your video trying to prove ? Throwing down an exhausted ennemy gives you one free heavy, this is something every class can do and you won't be able to do this with a brained player. You call it oneshot when you need to grab and exhaust an ennemy to throw him to the ground and give him 2 hits (heavy + unblockable). You're not really honest there.

Apart of that you're not able to land a single heavy to anyone after a guard break or a wall stun ! They don't even need to parry, just block.

Obviously you played vs not very good people. I've been curious so I watched your stream. Don't take it personnally, but you're not that good on the Raider. Yes you are doing well, and you are winning. But that's a matter of time for you to get destroyed by players who KNOWS to PARRY and know to COUNTER BREAK GUARD.

You are so spotted with all that grabs and your heavy unblocable dude if you go to a rough opponent they'll just chain light attacks whenever u try to guard break and parry your heavy unblockable so you'll be useless. Of course, your playstyle fits the way you play because most of your kills are coming to a guy 3v1 and heavy unblockable him or making him fall of a cliff. I'm not arguing about your playstyle, it is viable and it is working.

But in a DUEL or vs GOOD players, you will not be successful due to the simple fact that a real intelligent player will maybe get once by your tactic, but will destroy you the other times.

Once again let me be clear, the Raider IS viable. You can win and you can go 23-0 (my best, i'm sure there are lot of betters players than me with higher scores)
At a certain lvl of decent play, the Raider is underpowered vs other classes because of that disadvantage :

EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.

This is not hard to understand, and as I previously said, DO THE TEST. Go in duel mode vs any class, guard break and compare the timing to the others. The Raider guard break last shorter than all of the others, that is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to go for a guaranteed HEAVY attack (not unblockable). Get it ?

Now once you done that test, try playing with other chars, guard break heavy and you'll see the difference.

The real issue is this : Why every class can guard break + heavy but not the Raider ?

[TL24SS]

What is your video trying to prove ? Throwing down an exhausted ennemy gives you one free heavy, this is something every class can do and you won't be able to do this with a brained player. You call it oneshot when you need to grab and exhaust an ennemy to throw him to the ground and give him 2 hits (heavy + unblockable). You're not really honest there.

Apart of that you're not able to land a single heavy to anyone after a guard break or a wall stun ! They don't even need to parry, just block.

Obviously you played vs not very good people. I've been curious so I watched your stream. Don't take it personnally, but you're not that good on the Raider. Yes you are doing well, and you are winning. But that's a matter of time for you to get destroyed by players who KNOWS to PARRY and know to COUNTER BREAK GUARD.

You are so spotted with all that grabs and your heavy unblocable dude if you go to a rough opponent they'll just chain light attacks whenever u try to guard break and parry your heavy unblockable so you'll be useless. Of course, your playstyle fits the way you play because most of your kills are coming to a guy 3v1 and heavy unblockable him or making him fall of a cliff. I'm not arguing about your playstyle, it is viable and it is working.

But in a DUEL or vs GOOD players, you will not be successful due to the simple fact that a real intelligent player will maybe get once by your tactic, but will destroy you the other times.

Once again let me be clear, the Raider IS viable. You can win and you can go 23-0 (my best, i'm sure there are lot of betters players than me with higher scores)
At a certain lvl of decent play, the Raider is underpowered vs other classes because of that disadvantage :

EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.

This is not hard to understand, and as I previously said, DO THE TEST. Go in duel mode vs any class, guard break and compare the timing to the others. The Raider guard break last shorter than all of the others, that is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to go for a guaranteed HEAVY attack (not unblockable). Get it ?

Now once you done that test, try playing with other chars, guard break heavy and you'll see the difference.

The real issue is this : Why every class can guard break + heavy but not the Raider ?

Hit the nail my friend, it's unreal that the Raider can't land a single f'ing Heavy Attack after a GB. Only a Light Attack will land and by that time they will have recovered and will either parry or block the Light Attack combo. I love the Raider but god damn it needs a buff HARD.

[Maasik]

Hit the nail my friend, it's unreal that the Raider can't land a single f'ing Heavy Attack after a GB. Only a Light Attack will land and by that time they will have recovered and will either parry or block the Light Attack combo. I love the Raider but god damn it needs a buff HARD.

He actually does not need to be buffed hard at all.. he just needs a guarenteed guard break after a parry (like everyone else) and 1 guarenteed heavy after a guard break (like everyone else). It would also be nice of when throwing people into walls (sideways or backwards, not the knee) that he be able to consistently heavy attack. As currently he can do it, but you must be in a side stance before the grab and you cannot switch stances or wait even a second to start the heavy attack.. which is kinda dumb considering the warden can throw into wall, switch to top stance, and still land the top heavy consistently.

Really he just needs to be able to do what everyone else can already do, even if they have to cut back the heavy damage a little to compensate itd be incredibly beneficial.

[TTVPappusGaming]

What is your video trying to prove ? Throwing down an exhausted ennemy gives you one free heavy, this is something every class can do and you won't be able to do this with a brained player. You call it oneshot when you need to grab and exhaust an ennemy to throw him to the ground and give him 2 hits (heavy + unblockable). You're not really honest there.

Apart of that you're not able to land a single heavy to anyone after a guard break or a wall stun ! They don't even need to parry, just block.

Obviously you played vs not very good people. I've been curious so I watched your stream. Don't take it personnally, but you're not that good on the Raider. Yes you are doing well, and you are winning. But that's a matter of time for you to get destroyed by players who KNOWS to PARRY and know to COUNTER BREAK GUARD.

You are so spotted with all that grabs and your heavy unblocable dude if you go to a rough opponent they'll just chain light attacks whenever u try to guard break and parry your heavy unblockable so you'll be useless. Of course, your playstyle fits the way you play because most of your kills are coming to a guy 3v1 and heavy unblockable him or making him fall of a cliff. I'm not arguing about your playstyle, it is viable and it is working.

But in a DUEL or vs GOOD players, you will not be successful due to the simple fact that a real intelligent player will maybe get once by your tactic, but will destroy you the other times.

Once again let me be clear, the Raider IS viable. You can win and you can go 23-0 (my best, i'm sure there are lot of betters players than me with higher scores)
At a certain lvl of decent play, the Raider is underpowered vs other classes because of that disadvantage :

EVERY CLASS CAN BREAK GUARD INTO GUARANTEED HEAVY. EXCEPT RAIDER.

This is not hard to understand, and as I previously said, DO THE TEST. Go in duel mode vs any class, guard break and compare the timing to the others. The Raider guard break last shorter than all of the others, that is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to go for a guaranteed HEAVY attack (not unblockable). Get it ?

Now once you done that test, try playing with other chars, guard break heavy and you'll see the difference.

The real issue is this : Why every class can guard break + heavy but not the Raider ?

1. Raider can guardbreak into unblockable for 28 dmg. That is pretty close to what other classes heavy actually do. It does cost a good amount of stamina.
2. The video is not showing ONE heavy from exhaustion but one heavy + unblockable for 95 dmg, The bot there is not failing to block/dodge/parry - he cannot because that is a true combo.

[Titzi-]

See, finally we get to it.

1 - Exactly the problem, you said it yourself. Raider can breakguard onto unblockable for 28 dmg and half of his stamina and still get parried / dodged. Not to mention that doing the unblockable out of the combo reduce the dmg by 50% that is a ****ty move. What does other classes do ? They just hit heavies after the guardbreak

2 - That's what I said, you do in the video a nice combo that i'm doing whenever I can also because IT IS EFFECTIVE. However, factors for this to happen = Bad ennemy, Out of Stamina, Guardbreak into throw (meaning you don't get counter guardbreak) and then you can Heavy + Unblockable for a guaranteed KILL.

I love this combo, don't get me wrong, but do you see that for all of this to happen we have opponents that can just guard break and heavy you for the same result ?

Now in my first post as I said, I think if they fix the guard break of the Raider, then he might become overpowered due to the dmg he does, and then a nerf to the dmg will come.

All of this doesn't mean that Raider is **** or can't outplay ennemies. Just that others can punish every mistake you make whilst as a Raider you must use more tools for the same result.

Guard break into heavy as a Raider = you get parried
Guard break into heavy as another class = you do dmg.

[TTVPappusGaming]

See, finally we get to it.

1 - Exactly the problem, you said it yourself. Raider can breakguard onto unblockable for 28 dmg and half of his stamina and still get parried / dodged. Not to mention that doing the unblockable out of the combo reduce the dmg by 50% that is a ****ty move. What does other classes do ? They just hit heavies after the guardbreak

2 - That's what I said, you do in the video a nice combo that i'm doing whenever I can also because IT IS EFFECTIVE. However, factors for this to happen = Bad ennemy, Out of Stamina, Guardbreak into throw (meaning you don't get counter guardbreak) and then you can Heavy + Unblockable for a guaranteed KILL.

I love this combo, don't get me wrong, but do you see that for all of this to happen we have opponents that can just guard break and heavy you for the same result ?

Now in my first post as I said, I think if they fix the guard break of the Raider, then he might become overpowered due to the dmg he does, and then a nerf to the dmg will come.

All of this doesn't mean that Raider is **** or can't outplay ennemies. Just that others can punish every mistake you make whilst as a Raider you must use more tools for the same result.

Guard break into heavy as a Raider = you get parried
Guard break into heavy as another class = you do dmg.

I am getting honestly tired of talking in this forum. Guardbreak into unblockable cannot be parried and still does 28 dmg. Others do 30 with their heavies so the only real difference is ****ing 2 dmg. You might cry here about the stamina cost, but you know what? Guardbreak into a wall for a top heavy for 45 dmg and look how many can do THAT.

2. Exhausting an enemy is a thing of 1-2 parries. That has nothing to do with a ****ing bad opponent it has to do with you being good. Parry the zoneattack of a warden and you get the guardbreak automatically and he is exhausted. Boom 95 dmg for parrying his zoneattack. Sounds bad? Is the warden bad for throwing out his zoneattack? No he isnt.

He has tons of dmg and honestly most duels I play I exhaust the enemy. I might not get the guardbreak because I mess up the punishment time, but I do get the exhaust and if my GB punish connects as it should they can say goodbye to their healthbar.

Is it fun having to rely on parrying for everything? Depends, but don't say he can't do zip****. You parry with him appropriately ppl start ****ting their pants. I get parried by a warden i don't even care his heavies hit like noodles.

[Titzi-]

Guardbreak into unblockable can of course be parried or dodged. I do it all the time vs other Raiders because it is so predictable and slow it's a guaranteed parry or dodge and stun + punishment. Not to mention I can just counter guard break if my reactions are correct.

Once again, do the test. Go into duel mode and guard break your opponent. Then get guard breaked by your opponent and calculate the difference, it's easy to do.

And of course all of this has to do with good players. You think that if you parry once in a duel your opponent will let you come in ? Of course not, good players will tempo the fight. So as I said, it's a nice combo and it works, but don't think you'll do it twice or more in a duel vs an experimented player.

Keep going, if you like Raider and enjoy it. I do. I can still say FACTS and that's why i'm objective with it. Slower guard break = no heavy guaranteed, opponent's guard break = heavy guaranteed.

That is all to be discussed. Mind play and dueling someone with your combo or any other tactics will be effective or not DEPENDING of the opponent's skill. You can't argue that.

Right now most of the people are very bad at Counter guard break but you'll see the problem once you fight fame 3-4 orochi's

[TTVPappusGaming]

Guardbreak into unblockable can of course be parried or dodged. I do it all the time vs other Raiders because it is so predictable and slow it's a guaranteed parry or dodge and stun + punishment. Not to mention I can just counter guard break if my reactions are correct.

Once again, do the test. Go into duel mode and guard break your opponent. Then get guard breaked by your opponent and calculate the difference, it's easy to do.

And of course all of this has to do with good players. You think that if you parry once in a duel your opponent will let you come in ? Of course not, good players will tempo the fight. So as I said, it's a nice combo and it works, but don't think you'll do it twice or more in a duel vs an experimented player.

Keep going, if you like Raider and enjoy it. I do. I can still say FACTS and that's why i'm objective with it. Slower guard break = no heavy guaranteed, opponent's guard break = heavy guaranteed.

That is all to be discussed. Mind play and dueling someone with your combo or any other tactics will be effective or not DEPENDING of the opponent's skill. You can't argue that.

Right now most of the people are very bad at Counter guard break but you'll see the problem once you fight fame 3-4 orochi's

I already did the test and it isnt dodge/parryable.