Raider Viability | Forums

[Baron_Kreight]

raider has insane damage. I guess the payoff is his low speed. You know he can one-two shot people after they drop on the ground from his revenge.

[TTVPappusGaming]

Apologies, tested it again and you're correct.

So there is only two time you can hit with a guaranteed heavy unblockable by the Raider = guardbreak + unblockable and guardbreak+ throwing down out of stamina ennemy.

Still, it doesn't change a thing to the subject as the other classes can just guardbreak + heavy guaranteed whereas WE have to do guardbreak + unblockable for the same result except that you'll use more than half of your stamina for this.

Not to mention, I just tested it few seconds ago vs a Jarl fame 3 lvl 79equipment with full attack/defense and the guardbreak + unblockable only removed one bar of his life.
He just got the advantage after that because I was almost out of stamina so I needed to disengage, if not he's the one who will headbutt + throw you exhausted to the ground and that's almost over.

Sounds like a disadvantage. Keep in mind that there is equipments with stats when we're testing all of that so in duel mode it's not the same.

Anyway keep playing Raider and get better at it everyone so we can share.

It is a bit tough to compare characters like this. You are saying OTHER characters get heavies yeah but also not ALL heavies. A warden? He gets sideheavy so that is 30 dmg. No matter what gear - all chars have access to the same gear after all. However what happens at walls? Suddenly the raider has the edge in terms of mix-ups and threats.

I don't say the raider is top tier or anything. I just gather correct information and tell you guys how it is and what you can and cannot do.

Also think about removing at least a couple of wrong things you said. Personally I don't care, but the next noob that goes in here will read maybe up to page 3-4, read what you say and the others that were simply wrong and believe it won't work either. These forums are full of wrong information on many chars and aspects and it keeps growing because the next guy picks it up.

[Titzi-]

Not removing anything, I was wrong to say that after a guardbreak the unblockable is parryable/dodgeable. It isn't and I acknowledge it.

Don't make me say what I didn't, except this mistake, I still say simple things.

Raider guardbreak last shorter than any other classes, that is fact, tested again and again in duel mode.
Raider guardbreak does not guarantee heavy strike from any position. Other classes do.

Earlier I was in duel with an Orochi renown 4. The guy was a beast.
We had an intense fight that lasted maybe 1-2 minutes, but in the end he killed me because whenever he guarbreaked me and I didn't counter (my mistake) I got punished by heavy.
This happened only once in the fight, twice in the second round. But that bit of damage makes a huge difference in duel and the way you need to play.
Why can't Raider do this ? Sure you can unblockable like you said but it's 50% of stamina.

As I said in my first post, for me, the Raider isn't overpowered, but is not bad tho. Still Viable. Way harder than other classes because of that disadvantage. Now if they fix this (either the guardbreak that I'm not sure if the developers made it shorter for the Raider on purpose, or if it's a mistake or a bug) this may propulse the Raider into GOD tier because of the damage he would get from easy guardbreaks.

[Varicose_Veins]

BUMP

Raider & Kensai really need some loving.

The Valkyrie is getting some attention next patch so why not these two as well? Surely a few tweaks would help their viability.

[JayshxD]

as a main raider/lawbringer and berserker i think that yes he needs a little buff, they should put him a heavy combo that can be started with light atack like all other slow characters can if not he is so ****ing slow that any decent player can parry heavys and punish you xD. a fun fact , yesterday i was playing 1 duel and i nearly lost it with raider but i win easily with the lawbringer (who is not THAT good) even using the raider better.

[TTVPappusGaming]

Not removing anything, I was wrong to say that after a guardbreak the unblockable is parryable/dodgeable. It isn't and I acknowledge it.

snip.

Taking down an orochi means parrying a total of 3 times: Top Light or dodge attack. You parry one of those you answer with straight op heavy for 45. Hold your basic block on the right to keep away the zoneattack. Feint a coult of times to bait him into dodge attack if he seems to only dodge, feint -> grab -> unblockable. I know it is tough, but as I said the match can be over with as little as 3 parries. Orochi can't parry you 3 times for the kill as an example.

[Titzi-]

Must you be blind or deaf ?

I have no particular trouble against any class (said it like in all my posts), for me, the hardest to play against is Orochi, that can be different for people as it is only a feeling. Does not mean I can't win or get destroyed by every Orochi.

Once again your response is out of the subject. Yes you can parry 3 times an Orochi (this guy must be dumb to get baited like this, smart orochi will trade off after the first parry and recover but anyway in a low lvl scenario it works)
Yes you can do damage and kill, yes you can win duels.

How does it cost from you to achieve this ? More than other classes. Why ? Because guardbreak has no guaranteed heavy as Raider.

Ok so there is a lot of whining on the forums.. like a lot haha but hear me out.

The Raider is someone who is supposed to throw people around and hit hard, thats all well and good. But as a character thats meant to literally man-handle everyone else and chop them to pieces.. why is he the only vanguard character that does not get a guaranteed guardbreak after a successful parry? Plus even when he does land a guard break, none of his heavy attacks are guaranteed either. Granted, he has an unblockable that can be fainted.. but I feel like the damage it does for the amount of stamina it costs makes it not even worth throwing out unless its to end a chain, and even then its quite easy to parry and after the chain you might not have enough stamina to spare to try and feint it into something else.

So at high level where people are teching guard break attempts consistently, this leaves you with this playstyle of slowly chipping away at your opponents health with light attacks and stunning taps, which is very counter-intuitive to the Raiders archetype. Yes, you can do heavy into light cancels (which are all a high), heavy feint into guard breaks (which people can tech), or baiting out a move and get a dashing stunning tap (gimmicky and guarentees you no real follow up).. but at a high level you have no real way of opening a reactive defensive player up or getting any worthwhile damage in.

Maybe I just suck and need to "get good", but i feel like the Raider fails to do what he's supposed to excel at and the risk/reward isnt even in his favor seeing as your left with only doing light attacks after successful parries, forward throws, and stunning taps. Ideally if the Raider were to be adjusted, all I would want is guaranteed guard breaks after parries and 1 guarenteed heavy attack after both a guard break and a forward throw where you chuck the opponent to the ground (not when you stun them against a wall).

This could be a topic where we could talk for days about Raider's combo and how to manage to get out of dirty fights, but as stated the OP, we're discussing about Raider not being a Raider and being under the other classes because of one simple fact : no guaranteed heavy after guard break.

No matter what techniques can be used to replace this combo, it is weird that instead of guardbreaking and heavy like every char in the game Raider requires :

- Reactions (parry)
- Dumb ennemy (who will get parried 2 times or more)
- Even dumber ennemy, who will fall for the same combo in 3 rounds.
- High stamina cost

Ennemy just need to guardbreak and punish with heavy if you don't counterbreak. End of story.

PS : We love Raider probably as much as you do (the only char I enjoy playing). But why every guardbreak in this game last longer than the Raider ? Is it on purpose from the devs ? Is it a bug ?

[IamheiN]

He's too easy to parry, the damage they do is not enough for the slow moves they have

[ZoRG-X01]

I,m sick of this.
- Guy attack me, i parry then dash into grab but NO i just going to stand here and counter guard break you and don't give a f.
- Guy attack me i parry stuning tap - nope just going to stand here parry you and don't give a f.
- I Grab a guy heavy over head, NOPE, heavy side, NOPE.
- I'm, throwing a guy all over a map brake it nose 3-4 times - NO DAMAGE nothing guy just stand up and fight me and dont give a f.
- The only think i can do after a successful GB is a Fricking unbreakable that cost me 50% stamina. ( YES YOU CAN ITS A FREE UNBREAKABLE - test it before you wright something )

Every class can guard brake and heavy why on earth Raiders can't, or parry me and into a guard brake ? i love the Raider he is such a bad *** with his Dane Axe he is my main guy. At early levels i can stamp most of the players when i meat a good player it's like, can't do that, can't do that, hey you finaly grab him and throw him into the wall and brake his nose - GJ YOU DID APSOLUTLY NOTHING - hey but it look cool right ? but you can faint and then parry ? YES but what then ? light attack ?


For the love of Odin BUFF HIM.

[corac34]

I,m sick of this.
- Guy attack me, i parry then dash into grab but NO i just going to stand here and counter guard break you and don't give a f.
- Guy attack me i parry stuning tap - nope just going to stand here parry you and don't give a f.
- I Grab a guy heavy over head, NOPE, heavy side, NOPE.
- I'm, throwing a guy all over a map brake it nose 3-4 times - NO DAMAGE nothing guy just stand up and fight me and dont give a f.
- The only think i can do after a successful GB is a Fricking unbreakable that cost me 50% stamina. ( YES YOU CAN ITS A FREE UNBREAKABLE - test it before you wright something )

Every class can guard brake and heavy why on earth Raiders can't, or parry me and into a guard brake ? i love the Raider he is such a bad *** with his Dane Axe he is my main guy. At early levels i can stamp most of the players when i meat a good player it's like, can't do that, can't do that, hey you finaly grab him and throw him into the wall and brake his nose - GJ YOU DID APSOLUTLY NOTHING - hey but it look cool right ? but you can faint and then parry ? YES but what then ? light attack ?


For the love of Odin BUFF HIM.

Agreed, how can the devs buff the valk already and leave the raider who has been broken like this for the last 2 betas? its ******ed! please ubisoft. lmao