Why is Orochi so bad? | Forums

[CaesarVI00]

I posted this on another thread concerning the Orochi in this game, and I'm now posting it here to see if my points are valid.

I like the Orochi, I really do. I think this hero and Nobushi are the most classical representation of the samurai class. And I was really hoping to make this class my favorite, but the Orochi has some major disadvantages. It's like playing as a mosquito against a rhino for with some of these other heroes. The Orochi has relatively less abilities and strengths to give it an advantage against other classes.

It has less health, so it can't take a whole lot of hits. Range is medium, so you have no choice but to get up close. You are forced to always be moving in and out while attacking, which really drains your stamina. And what really killed him was what Ubisoft did after the Alpha. They changed the Orochi's deflect ability from block to dodge, making it so you have to dodge towards the attack, instead of just timing your block. That nerf really killed this class, because now you have to time and mash your buttons. Not to mention that if you time it wrong, you go straight into the attack and get hit. How are we supposed to put up a good fight against other opponents when most of us can't even do the Orochi's only ability?

Compared to the other heroes, the Orochi has little offensive or defensive abilities to help give it an advantage. The Peacekeeper has to get really close to be effective, but she can do a lot of bleeding damage, and the Berserker has an infinite chain attack that gives the enemy little room to breath. The Nobushi can do bleeding damage while keeping people at bay, and the Shugoki can kill anyone instantly with that death grip of theirs. And the Kensei has several combos with unblockable finishes. The Orochi only has that deflect ability, which is extremely hard to use.

As much as I like the Orochi, Ubisoft has made it really, really difficult to love when its so difficult to use effectively. Right now, I'm actually really hoping that the next DLC Hero for the samurai is another swordsman. One that can be used more competently.

[CF_Pyre]

Orochi is currently the strongest overall character in the game. You need to use his dodge/attack moves and not try to play him like he's a Warden or Kensei. Watch the practice videos and duel with the training bot for a while and then go online and stomp faces. He's the best character in the game right now, so much so that it seems like 70% of samurai players are using him. I almost never see the kensei, it's always orochi or nobushi.

The top player in Duels with a 100% win rate mained a Kensei... Not sure how much you've even read in the first place; it clearly says he has had time to practice through all the betas and alphas so has more experience with Orochi than what training with a bot for a few hours can do. I have already put enough time to, with betas included, have my Orochi at Rep 6 (3 in closed beta, 2 in open and rep 1 currently) and I couldn't agree more.

The Storm Rush WILL ALWAYS get either parried or deflected at higher level and can hence only rarely be used as a counter, especially if you dash back for storm rush while dodging a heavy and go in with said storm rush, and their heavy hit recovery is already over to defend against said storm rush. This is especially evident with Warden. More on the note with Warden, given how he can use overhead Crushing Counterstrike, Orochi's double top light, lightning strike AND (especially) Riptide Strike all become nearly redundant against a good Warden. This is not even as effective as Valkyrie's back dash in to All-guard, knocks an opponent to the ground AND drains stamina.
Riptide Strike is also a special move in that it can dodge a short range attack and counter with an overhead heavy. However, this only works short range with good timing and cannot be cancelled so you have to commit and hope the attack you dodge is not cancelled too for a punish. This is nowhere near as special as, say, Nobushi's hidden stance, which also dodges an attack but also masks guard and can go in to the second hit of a chain from any direction with any move and can be sustained/cancelled - not just one heavy overhead.
The Zephyr Slash is predictable and easily punishable and since it only comes in the direction you dash in, further reinforcing the whole predictable case, it's not even as effective as Kensei's side dash light, which attacks in the opposite direction of your dash.
Moreover, the "reward" for having a reflex guard (only active for 2 seconds) is, what, the ability to deflect? Deflect is currently less punishment than parrying while being harder to pull off. Even then, Valkyrie has a similar deflect (dodge in the direction of an attack and follow with a heavy) without the cost of reflex guard and with the reward of a one-bar bleed. So where's the balance?

[The_Mensan]

I have read that today but I can not figure out what it means. Can someone explain it to me?
Back dash slice what is this attack? Riptide strike when he does a step back and then comes in with an overhead heavy?
How is it canceld I tried with E (on pc its the usal cancel heavy attack button) but it did not work.

No, it's the Stormrush. You can cancel Stormrush into anything like Dodge / Light Attack / GB for mixup. It's a valuable tool. A lot of the time even a cancel by itself is a good move to use for spacing purposes. This is an unique advantage for Orochis as you have quite a bit of mobility from that move. It's not a good move to randomly throw out though, you will get parried, deflected every time.

[iHunny]

Orochi is still one of the best hero's in the game and the best assassin of the 3. It have a larger pool of tools to use then any of the other two and your top lights can be free after many of your moves conetcs or when you parry any attack.

[Te_Wheke]

I feel like deflect in general is underwhelming for all classes it's available to, with Orochi and PK you get a guaranteed special light attack and with Berserker you get a GB. Compared to what you get off a parry for the same characters there doesn't really seem like much of a reason to opt for deflect when parry is slightly safer since if you time it too late you'll still block the attack rather than eating it with a deflect, plus parry works on unblockables.

Would be happy for someone to explain why I'm wrong and when a deflection is the better play, but it just seems like there's no reason real benefit to opting for the riskier play. I know you can opt for Hurricane Blast off a deflect but that's not guaranteed since a light attack can stop it.

[G0BackT0G0]

Orochi is still one of the best hero's in the game and the best assassin of the 3. It have a larger pool of tools to use then any of the other two and your top lights can be free after many of your moves conetcs or when you parry any attack.

oh please, the PK does everything (useful) the orochi does but better. his side dodge attacks are faster and less telegraphed, his lights are faster and can be mixed up while orochi's only fast one is the overhead light. his forward dash attack is less telegraphed than storm rush. which tool of the orochi are you talking about that the PK does not do better?

I feel like deflect in general is underwhelming for all classes it's available to

this.

[xXBlackSpeedyXx]

i hope they delete the class orochi. Orochi and teh shield classes are the most unskilled classes i have ever seen in a game. You dont need any kind of skill and has nearly 100% winrate. I hope Ubisoft nerf them to death or just delete them.

[The_Mensan]

i hope they delete the class orochi. Orochi and teh shield classes are the most unskilled classes i have ever seen in a game. You dont need any kind of skill and has nearly 100% winrate. I hope Ubisoft nerf them to death or just delete them.

u opinion teh strong, smart to type leik dis.

Such emotion, did you recently get noob-stomped? Learn to play. In about an hour / a day / a week / a month, you will look back at this and laugh about what a noob you must be if you can't even beat an Orochi.

[SadowHunter2]

Orochi is currently the strongest overall character in the game. You need to use his dodge/attack moves and not try to play him like he's a Warden or Kensei. Watch the practice videos and duel with the training bot for a while and then go online and stomp faces. He's the best character in the game right now, so much so that it seems like 70% of samurai players are using him. I almost never see the kensei, it's always orochi or nobushi.

He is so weak, compared to everyone else.

[Te_Wheke]

I think there are 2 changes that would allow Orochi to compete better against player that can actually defend.

1) Make Zephyr Strike cancellable, this would give Orochi an actual 50/50 as they could feint to draw out the parry attempt.
2) Make Riptide Strike attack from all directions, it's a slow useless attack that has no purpose right now that Storm Rush doesn't do better. Being able to choose the direction the attack came from would at least make it a tiny bit less predictable since once people know what to look for it's a simple parry top every time.