Why is Orochi so bad? | Forums

[The_Mensan]

I am glad there are sensible non-bandwagon-jumping people in this thread.

The entire premise is around "perfect play". Orochi cannot break a perfect defense; he does have 50/50 options but they are not REAL options because of his incredibly low health pool / damage. Assuming that you can block/parry/deflect 100% and so can your opponent. You only change now is to feint bait for a parry/dodge so you can deflect/GB. If he guess wrong, you deal damage, if he guess right, you probably take damage (assuming perfect opponent who punish 100%).

This is true even at 90% level. I don't 100% parry everything but even at 90% level, NO ONE will be attacking randomly. Most of the fights that I have ever lost was against player who were smart enough to just calm down and 50/50 me. I can't afford any trades, I can successfully bait/defelect 3-4 times and only take half of his health when 3 of his 50/50 options would probably kill me.

Just google "wakeup game, crossup game, 50/50 game" in any serious fighting game, you will see that this is not a new concept I invented. Raw damage output MATTERS. In other games when a speedy character is less powerful, those character are given far better defensive options. In this game DEFLECT is not much better than PARRY. Most parry can give you one LIGHT ATTACK, a DEFLECT gets you one LIGHT ATTACK (except their light do more damage). So without a significant defensive advantage, you are forced to play the 50/50 mixup game at a disadvantage (of health).

So the proper fix in this case is to either UP Orochi damage or give them more unique defensive advantages (More I-frames in their dodges would work). I prefer better defense than up Orochi damage because it makes him more unique, not less.

Currently, in case you don't know... Feinting a heavy into a light in another direction against an Orochi is a viable 50/50 option especially with someone relatively quick like Warden / Nobushi / Berserker / Peacekeeeper. I can either block (take block damage from heavy, no frame advantage after) OR I can deflect/dodge. The defect mechanic requires a slower timing, which means if he feints, I won't start the dodge early enough to prevent the light from hitting me. Even if I dodge early, I think depending on the attacker's speed, some lights are still undodgeable after indicator. Of course, similarly, I can do the same to him and mix in GBs and such... But the problem is every successful mixup results in WAY more damage to me than to him.

Your speedy attack doesn't matter when we are talking about perfect opponents; you won't be spamming light to win. You will be feinting into a light or GB. So you are basically doing a "faster" 50/50, but against a good player, you are still only hitting 50% of the time.

I think a TLR version is this... Orochi's speed makes him "HARDER" to play against; but he has less "ABSOLUTE" advantage. Which means at TOP TIER level, when "harder" to play against doesn't matter because both you and your opponent are PERFECT, your "advantage" is no longer an advantage.

A stupid example would be... Engineering school is harder to finish, to compensate for a higher income and Communications degree is quicker to finish be average a lower income. On the surface, they are "balanced" but at TOP performance level, choosing engineering simply gets you more pay! You don't care if engineering is hard, you are smarter and you can do it just as easily!

That's the logic behind it. Orochi is a GREAT noob stomper because it's hard to play against him if you only spam (good luck, I can block/dodge/deflect/parry AND race you with my LIGHT attack), but against players of equal level (high skill level), the advantage is non-existent BUT the disadvantage isn't. Orochi still have low health no matter how quick your reaction is...

[Cromgar]

Have mained orochi open beta.

Its a great class that has awesome ways to deal with ppl , alot of characters do rely on grab or comvo attacks which are unblockable, which you can still dodge.
So you can defend from ANYTHING if your quick enough.

Orochi instead attacks ehen you cant parry deflevt or dodge and even then the swift unblockables and the quick changes and faints lets the heads of your opponents spin and if you control the fight and pace you then can read your oponent like a book.

Orochi max be the hardest of all since you have to be bettet then the best of any othet clasd BUT YOU CAN BE and having the highest potential is just the thing i hoped for him.

[Sephriem]

Orochi is really hard to use, with one unblockable attack, and so many openings, both block or parry give large timing windows to get your assed kicked, and since the only has 3 heavy skills easy pickings to get countered. Orochi depends on messing up timing windows, fancy footwork, if it fails it can't do ****e

[NahuelBK01]

"Is so easy kill an Orochi, if your are bad to play is other thing... I was killed many Orochis, GB, low resistence, and QA begin the opponent attack."
Isn't broken. Its cool the older 9 charactes. Very equilibrated. But the Valkirie and Shugoki not.

[Waynedetta40k]

3) You can cancel back dash slice into a forward dash guard break.

I already mentioned that this is the only unique advantage we have, yes correct. That move give us good options.

I have read that today but I can not figure out what it means. Can someone explain it to me?
Back dash slice what is this attack? Riptide strike when he does a step back and then comes in with an overhead heavy?
How is it canceld I tried with E (on pc its the usal cancel heavy attack button) but it did not work.

[Deus-Vultt]

how much of a dumb **** do you have to be to make a post like this. literatly top 1-2 class in game and you're complaining. people like you need to uninstall and never go on the internet again

[PepsiBeastin]

I'm at about rank 40 with my gear quality now and I've spec'ed into attack, yet my strong attacks and wind/hurricane slash only do as much damage as a berserker light attack. Also for some reason there is an extreme delay in blocking/dodging. I sometimes dodge the second I see a berserker jumping for the jump attack, yet I still can't even move in time to avoid it. This class is getting worse the more I fight players who don't even know how to block.

[MyseratyGrim]

I feel you bro. They killed him.
SOOOOOO many People are complaining about him for what?
because you want to kill him with two and not with three hits?
because he has more than a 2-hit combo.
ohhh nooo how dangerous...

Look at AAAAALLLL the other characters and look at the other assassins.
Orochi has no combos.

oh wait yeah, that one 2 hit combo...cool...yeah...cool..

be honest, for everyone who knows him or played against him for 2 rounds.
you know what attacks he has.

back dash, side dash, 2 hit combo, or maybe when the game allows...a parry. but you can counter a parry just by lightattack. yay...

there are no combos for him.
he is the worst character. they nerfed him tooo DEATH.
and you still complaining.

shugoki kills with 3 hits and you still complain about orochi?
Berserker has almost infinite stamina and you guys still complain orochi?



The facts:

Orochi has way toooooooooooo less Combos.
His slides are worse than the other assassins.
He can not take any hits. His Health is a joke...

Once...the Orochi was Oni. they nerfed him soooo much that orochi appeared...now the orochi dies.
please delete him. he is just a left joke in the corner. and i can not watch him getting a bunny in that game.

Mimimi? yeah sure...i just want to make that game great again
but yeah, i sold it today. waiting for that game getting worse playing.

it is soo unbalanced...let the kids play with their bombs...
there is no spirit of the game or Honor.

the game is just no honor
and everyone who has it, will lose it fast enough

[The_Mensan]

how much of a dumb **** do you have to be to make a post like this. literatly top 1-2 class in game and you're complaining. people like you need to uninstall and never go on the internet again

The problem is your logic is flawed. Top class in the hands of mediocre player killing other mediocre player says nothing about the ultimate mechanics of the class. The average doctor makes more money than you average business grad, but how many top wealthiest people on earth are in business and how many are practicing doctors? Being good on AVERAGE is not GOOD "ultimately".

I already explained the noob stomping capabilities of Orochi, if you think Orochi's are powerful, it's because you still fall into the category of people who can't handle a perfect defense (and yourself not having a perfect defense).

In a high level game, everyone have perfect defense and parry / punish everything, so the game comes down to 50/50 trades. Orochi loses those fights every single time due it's lowest HP and damage.

For example, the clearest example I can think of right now. A perfect Warden vs a perfect Orochi. The Warden's main weapon is what? It would be the top light / zone-attack + feint / GB options. You can guess right, block the light or guess wrong and take a hit, it's called a 50/50. The Warden is capable of forcing true 50/50 (which means the defender have no real safe option, you have to guess and you can fail at least 50%). Orochi can't really force a 50/50, but his defense is strong enough that if he guess right, he can punish other people's 50/50 attempts.

So assuming Orochi punish everytime Warden fails, they each hit 50% of the time... Who wins? Warden. Every. Single. Time. There's no mathematical way for Orochi to trade and win with Warden.

[Waynedetta40k]

3) You can cancel back dash slice into a forward dash guard break.

I already mentioned that this is the only unique advantage we have, yes correct. That move give us good options..

I have read that today but I can not figure out what it means. Can someone explain it to me?
Back dash slice what is this attack? Riptide strike when he does a step back and then comes in with an overhead heavy?
How is it canceld I tried with E (on pc its the usal cancel heavy attack button) but it did not work.

I still wonder if i can get an answer to this? Would be appreciated.