Why is Orochi so bad? | Forums

[TheHonorVampire]

Nah you're just garbage. And if whoever did that test with you came up with the same conclusion, make sure to tell him his garbage too.

[SethUnleashed]

i laughed a little to be honest...

you do realise that orochi has THE most op combo in the game right now that will take 1/3 to 1/2 of an enemies HP bar if they dont manage to avoid the Lightning Strike attack?

this whole combo cannot be avoided after you get hit by that rush attack and you are comparing assassin light attacks to vanguard heavy attacks

if the light attacks are too fast for you, dont deflect them -> block/parry them and counter that way.

for your peacekeeper comparison:
any decent player will deny its grab+stab with a 95%+ success chance and therefor negating the PKs biggest source of damage.
the peacekeepers lunge is VERY easy to see coming and its ALWAYS a top attack, so its also easy to counter.

and if you really think that the orochi's toolkit cant handle higher skill players, you should try berserker ... THAT class has it hard against skilled players (no unblockables, easy to negate core mechanic, etc)

you claim you look at the class from a "deep theoretical analysis" point of view, yet all i see in your thread is whining with zero actual facts.

[Yoshimitsu_440]

I can see where the OP is coming from, when fighting lower skilled players the toolkit an orochi has is sublime for destroying aggressive button mashers or players who dont fully understand how an Orochi does damage, he is not disputing that. What he is saying is when you face higher skilled opponents who understand the best way to win against a class built on counter attacking is not to attack and just play pure defense. So due to the majority of opponents having higher health pools they just try to poke you to death as they will win the war of light attack attrition, fighting a good nobushi is a total nightmare when they do this.

The solution being as he suggested that the I-frames must start immediately to allow a deflect to land properly against a light attack as currently as long as your opponent does absolutely nothing apart from defend and CGB he cannot lose unless its a mirror match pretty much. If a class is built on counter attacks it must be able to counter EVERYTHING, or good opponents will soon realise that the way to win is just to defend and use the one thing you cannot counter, pretty obvious really (just ask any Tekken player who plays king how frustrating this can be).

The reason why feints/baiting/cancels have zero effect against good players who understand all the above is that they know they only need to poke you with LA to win, if you can counter the LA, which should take skill on the Orochi's part since each class has a slightly different speed but still fast, the the rest of the toolkit comes into play because a good player will understand after losing a round that you have downloaded them as a LA defender therefore be forced to switch it up.

As for the damage if the above was solved then i think the damage is fine since the ability to land more counter attacks is also increased thus increasing the DPS overall, if anything the orochi would make a little more sense if it had a bleed since when you do land an attack it will help with the attrition state in terms of ppl who just defend all the time cannot rely on their higher health pool to see them through, so must at least play a little aggressive to keep up therefore bringing the Orochi toolkit back into play.

ive been playing mainly orochi the whole closed and open beta. I think that orochi is balanced, however he does have low health pool and most of his attacks do low dmg comparing to other classes. His deflect though is too hard to do if u play against fast classes. btw did u guys notice after deflect combo every other attack is auto block? that wasn't in closed beta for sure and I think that needs to be changed. if u do deflect and heavy attack, the enemy can just counter it with any light attack.

[ArcheDemonm]

I hope players with less then 20 hours into play combined do not bother responding into this thread.

While it is true that Orochi has insanely low hp compared to the damage it does, he has a mobility kit to compensate for it. Its a bit of a shame though, that gap closing is generally useless after renown one since Orochis gap closing attacks are so telegraphic you can parry them all day long without ever taking a sweat. Getting 3 parries into Kensei and bringing his hp 50% down only to loose 75% of your own after a single lost parry is, however, not very nice. This is including the fact, that orochi top guard break finisher is one of the most damaging moves out there.

Overall it is R\P\S in terms of class play again. Some classes have advantage over others and since defensive (or wary at least for peacekeepers) playstyles are the only ones left for engame, it is generally "who can better defend against whom" scenario.

However Orochi could use some poke move for scrapping turtle players much more effectively. Zone attack is nice and all, but thats sorta the only one out there and it takes quite a lot of stamina. It buzzles me to the core that warden have faster(special) top fast attack too . So he can poke you while turtling much more effectively then you can poke him.

Though you can have your comebacks against conquerors in semi-open field, raiders and nobushi.

[pongkrit03]

LOL oh no, Raider's heavy attack ? yes, the strongest + slowest attack, how could you get hit by that so often unless you are noob? If you keep using fast attack mixed with GB, there is no way Raider can initiate heavy attack on you,. The true is you don't need to deflect at all, if your attack get blocked, just dash backward immediately -> storm rush -> continue light attack, that the basic

[M3run3]

I have played for honor on PC and ps4 and have noticed that the orochi on ps4 has an inability to guard properly. You can easily notice this if you complete the advanced tutorial on Ps4 where you have to guard against 2 enemies. Strangely enough this problem does not occur on PC as I can guard with ease. However when I play with orochi on ps4 I cannot guard attacks consistently a problem I do not have on PC

[Aarpian2]

Ok...

We did a test, Orochi needs to hit with 15 light attacks to kill a Raider and the Raider only need like 3-4 heavy attacks to kill an Orochi.

In a nut shell - you're talking ****. 15 light attacks would be 255 damage. The Raider has 140 hp.

[Ryuichir0]

Not sure about that, but I have the feeling not all of Orochis Light attacks do the same damage.
The guaranteed second Light Overhead for example deals significantly less damage than the first.

I think I will make a complete chart after release and attempt to calculate Damage and Health values for all classes/attacks out of it.

[Bagger92]

Orochi is pretty solid imo. I don't think he needs any changes

[KnifeInUrNeck]

Meh it's all about the chains, dodged, and stuff not on the move list. The back charge slash can be cancelled when you're coiled by simply releasing the left trigger and exiting guard mode. I find the Orichi's best move is his crashing wave or whatever where he takes a step back and then comes in with a heavy. It does huge dame and you can play fake it by using the back slash. The key is being unpredictable and knowing your opponents moves. Your opponent can have fifty moves but if you can dodge/counter all of them with 5, what does it matter. I haven't seen a lot of high level players in duels on the most recent beta but the ones I did, weren't that fancy. I love my Orichi.