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Edit: At the point of writing this post i had not properly tested the -frames and interactions that the warden zone attacks have with block. I have now confirmed a blocked zone attack is punishable with un-techable guardbreak on block, so read the post with that in mind.
At the moment at high level all you see is Wardens alternating between zone and top light because it is so hard to punish in a real game.
Warden is easily the best character by far, and anyone who played against good wardens know why.
He got no weakness what so ever, unless you count an average throw range a big weakness.
The character is overloaded with juicy tools and attacks:
- Deadly charge combos that can be mixed with breaks or zone(and make amazing 50/50's with cancel into break or continue the stun)
- Great feint play opportunities
- Crush counter top light, which makes anyone vary of doing long range poke or leaps. (which many characters kinda depend on for mix-ups, espes Kensei and Nobushi)
- Warden is s able to finish of any last 1 pip/bar of health with a guard break, charge or straight light attack due to heavy side on guard break possible or the light combo with double light attacks. Many characters can do this, but taken into account all the other tools, it is simply just overwhelming when even Berserker cant.
And the thing that makes warden a tier above the rest for sure is:
- 2 super fast frame attacks, most famously Warden zone attack as a mix-up surprise attack, cant catch even good players off-guard, especially when feinted, and super hard to parry in a real game
The zone attack alone is so hilariously stronger than any other zone attack in the game, than any attack in the game for that matter. Great range, sweeps pretty much the area in front of you and is so fast that it is neigh impossible to consistently parry on reaction in a real fight.
Thus it is safe, effective at taking around half a pip and scaring the hell out of your opponent. This is one of the attacks that differ wardens from the other classes simply because the Warden simply forces you to attack him, lest you be slowly chipped down by mixed up zone attacks with top light or feints.
The top light is the final nail in the coffin. Not only does it have an instant crush counter effect that cripples most classes while being an effective deterrent overall, it is also lightning fast and when used in combination with zone attack by alternating between them, you make the opponent never feel safe just blocking. Mix it with feint guard break, charges, feint heavy into light top/zone and you got a recipe for real mayhem.
Yes, parrying light top and zone attacks are possible, yes it is possible for another warden on reaction to crush the top and parry the light. But mother of god, if you can do this consistently, then you are perhaps of the best players in existence.
A few more frames to his zone attack would work wonders, not much, just make it barely parryable on reaction like almost any other attack out there. The top light... i dont know, maybe they can keep it or only a tiny nerf. The warden have good tools, and shouldnt need to rely on cheesing with fast frames to avoid most punishment,.
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The samurai has extremely fast attacks, i could take a peace keeper or raider or samurai and beat a warden easy as pie, however i played the warden the last few hours of the closed bet and grew very fond of him. If you took away his fast light attack he would be useless because his heavies are so slow.
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Kensei only got one fast attack and that is the helm splitter, which is an overhead, and when a warden knows that, and got the reactions you are gonna get wasted faster than you can cry "YAMEROOO"
At really high level you cant just go raider and peace keeper and "beat a warden as pie" At equal high skill a Warden easily takes the gold. Peace keeper is pretty much a joke because she lacks the mix-up tools, and while kensei does have nice comboes, he aint gonna get to use them unless he can parry zones and light top mix-ups on feints on reaction. Good luck doing that, mean while all he has to do is block top from midrange, and fish with his fast frames or wait for you to attack and counter.
Just because his heavies are slow doesnt mean he would be useless. He still got crush, he still got 50/50 charge, and the top light would still be fast.
Idd like to ask you exactly how a peacekeeper and raider beats a warden in open terrain, explain me the process and the moves.
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We are assuming The Warden and his opponent is very skilled for the sake of discussion. This means uncancelable top attacks (which most pokes attacks are) will more than likely get punished.
But it also means the other player wont even use those attacks, because Warden renders those tools useless unless he is somehow caught offguard because you never used it.
Junior Member
The shoulder block cancel into guard break seems too much? Crazy 50/50 which leads to really big damage and another mix up? None of the other similar moves (Conq shield bash, Warlord headbutt, Nobushi kick) can be cancelled and are still really powerful tools in their kits, the Warden shoulder bash just feels god tier atm but there's always a chanceI I'm missing something this early into any game.
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Not sure why you would assume that. I play all characters, and i spar against a lot of different people to come to the conclusions i do in private 1v1's to test the edges of For Honor. How about you attack my statements with logic and facts instead of pure guesswork ?Originally Posted by o0 DaGnOmE 0o Go to original post
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Hahahahaha this, so this.Originally Posted by o0 DaGnOmE 0o Go to original post
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You keep saying the Warden has a lot of tools but they have the least tool of all the classes in the game.
-shoulder bash
-top counter
that's it. anything else you mention isn't exclusive to them.
1) I was gonna say "dude just side dodge the shoulder charge LMAO" but the GB cancel is so good I can't argue with that.Originally Posted by The_Wall_ Go to original post
2) Just like every other classes
3) Meanwhile assassin classes can do that in all three directions. Can easily be avoided by not doing a top heavy attack or doing a light attack when they are already blocking high.
4) Well like you said, many characters can do this. I'd expect any class to be able to finish off an opponent. Meanwhile the Orochi gets a free TOP HEAVY attack from a guard break.
5) Litterally Dude just block left LMAO. If they feint into it they are left with almost no stamina and can't start pressuring from it, meaning what little damage it deals isn't worth it. It's time to dash forward and grab them to deplete what's left of their stamina or start your own pressure, because they sure as hell are going to back off after pulling this off.
6)it's his fastest light but isn't it still as fast as other vanguard fast lght attacks? That used to be the one with the most tracking so you would use it fter a throw or parry instead of the double side attack comboin into shoulder bash mixup. Other than that, what I said in 3)
I can agree with a few more startup frame for the zone attack, though. But like I said, it's really not as good as it looks.
