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  1. #1

    "Normalize"

    I was recently watching "Matt Shotcha" on twitch, and there was an argument with one of his viewers regarding the term "Normalize" that was quite interesting. The viewer made a comment that the term is coined by dev teams to replace Nerf because obviously no one likes when things get nerfed. The streamer then argued that it was not a replacement, and that the term was only being used to refer to the Last Stand expansion.

    To me, this was side stepping the point the viewer was making entirely. If the term normalize is not used to soften the blow that a term like nerf generally brings, then why is the word normalize not used to describe the buffing of things?

    The viewer made a great point when he cited the example of sets such as Nomad, Lonestar, or Deadeye, and asked if they would be "normalized" so that they would in some way be viable to the current or upcoming meta, after which point the viewer was banned. Not only was this completely unnecessary and qutie obnoxious, but also spurred me to make this post regarding the information and question the integrity in which which Massive conducts themselves publicly.

    If the word "normalize" is not being used so that you don't have to tell your community you are nerfing something, then why don't you use the word to describe a buff?

    The answer is simple:

    Normalize ALWAYS = nerf.

    Normalize NEVER = buff.
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  2. #2
    Erkkisson's Avatar Member
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    Normalize == balance

    They are also normaliz... err balancing the ALREADY lackluster named weapons in 1.6 to exotics which have worse talents than they have now.
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  3. #3
    Winslow-the-Dog's Avatar Banned
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    In my opinion the definition of normalise SHOULD cover reducing values to the lowest possible value (which would be a nerf) AND increasing them to the highest possible value (which would be a buff). Now how the term is interpreted by the developer and community is going to be pretty subjective. I don't know exactly how 'normalisation' was achieved in the PTS. I would have thought, due to the need to unlock weapon talents that all stats would need to be maxed and not minimised which ironically would suggest that it has been used in this instance to mean a buff.

    To me however this all seems a bit irrelevant as the viewer's question about Nomad, Lone Star and Dead Eye doesn't really seem to be about the stats on each piece but more about the gear set bonuses not being competitive in a PvP scenario which is a completely different issue.

    Nonetheless to ban him for asking a relevant question on a social media channel is in my opinion publicity suicide. Matt has been on here recently stating how the developers are willing to engage in meaningful discussion. I take it this Twitch stream isn't recorded anywhere? If it is, I'd be inclined to post it up, edit the relevant parts and call Matt out on it directly and ask him for an answer on whether banning subscribers to their channel for asking constructive questions is considered a good way to display their willingness to engage in meaningful discussions.

    If anything the Ubisoft's moderators' response should give a fairly clear indication of what to expect in future from both companies.
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  4. #4
    LepantoESP's Avatar Senior Member
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    Gear normalization has no place in a LOOT BASED game IMO. I understand why some people like it, why some people THINK the like it, but personally I view it as something that shouldn't be in the game at all. As ever YMMV of course.
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  5. #5
    Winslow-the-Dog's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by LepantoESP Go to original post
    Gear normalization has no place in a LOOT BASED game IMO. I understand why some people like it, why some people THINK the like it, but personally I view it as something that shouldn't be in the game at all. As ever YMMV of course.
    That's a fair point, but that being the case by definition if there is no normalisation there should be no buffs and no nerfs which means that what they are doing to skill builds currently has no place in the game.

    Aside from that however, assuming that what has been posted is accurate (I'd be interested to find out how we know the viewer was banned and for what reason i.e. fact or speculation) where do you stand on the issue of banning viewers for asking legitimate questions when only days before that person posted on an official forum stating his willingness to engage in constructive meaningful discussion with the community?

    I'm not being facetious here, it's a legitimate question and I'd be interested to hear what you think about Massive's behaviour in this respect.
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  6. #6
    Kinda crazy if he was banned for that? I'm afraid that's a bit heavy handed.
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  7. #7
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  8. #8
    LepantoESP's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Winslow-the-Dog Go to original post
    That's a fair point, but that being the case by definition if there is no normalisation there should be no buffs and no nerfs which means that what they are doing to skill builds currently has no place in the game.

    Aside from that however, assuming that what has been posted is accurate (I'd be interested to find out how we know the viewer was banned and for what reason i.e. fact or speculation) where do you stand on the issue of banning viewers for asking legitimate questions when only days before that person posted on an official forum stating his willingness to engage in constructive meaningful discussion with the community?

    I'm not being facetious here, it's a legitimate question and I'd be interested to hear what you think about Massive's behaviour in this respect.
    Yo Winslow, happy to oblige. As always remember I'm just a frequent poster here, I have no Massive/Ubi affiliation

    That aside, I actually do own and run a company which has very strong ties with exceedingly passionate customers, and passionate people can go overboard. Really overboard. But the ban-hammer? We've only used it once in over 500.000 user/company interactions and even then I still have regrets at times.

    So my stance is always against banning opinions. If, however, the Twitch comments were part of a larger "debate" and the tone of which was expletive laden, I could see how Matt could've had his fill of it.

    In any case, these forums provide a fantastic alley to perhaps chim in and defuse the issue by Matt? I mean, it's not like Matt, Gabe and Yannick don't take flack, so I'd be willing to believe it was more than a gentlemen disagreement they were having.

    In my experience the converts are your better apostles, so as a recap I always try to understand and explain and usually, always in my business, people like the engagement and respond very favourably.
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  9. #9
    gt2k's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LepantoESP Go to original post
    Gear normalization has no place in a LOOT BASED game IMO. I understand why some people like it, why some people THINK the like it, but personally I view it as something that shouldn't be in the game at all. As ever YMMV of course.
    Without you cannot have balance in PVP in a loot based game. Without balance in a PVP game, that game will always be looked at as joke.

    Considering their normalizing is putting max values on gear it is buffing the gear.
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  10. #10
    Here is a link to the stream:

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/120422395


    I believe the twitch users name was Sik209. Matt progressively got more upset with him, and eventually told him he could not talk about the term "normalize" anymore and that he should get off the topic. I really don't feel a developer should be telling their fans or viewers to "get off a topic", especially one as large as something like what he is referring to. I believe it was sometime at about 1h50m point that the user started asking the question in chat, and about 2h 29m point is around the time I assume he was banned as his comments were deleted.

    Nothing that I could see from him warranted a ban, and all of his questions were actually quite legitimate and did warrant an answer. Some of the times Matt did not even read the users entire comment and would read the first line and then immediately attack the user irrationally.

    This is a perfect example of Massive's employees disregarding their communities criticism and then creating an echo chamber in their streams and channels by banning these users.
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