Yes, gladly
Maybe, I haven't decided yet
No, I have my own Code of Honor
No, but I will accept DCoH players
No and I think nobody should
First 4 points are okay. Those are common sense. Other 2 are not. I will do everything I can to secure the victory, no matter what. If I see someone from my team doing this, I will act disrespectful towards him, because his egoism, costs me victory. Wanna act honorable by playing as characters who rape, kill, steal, raid etc? Go ahead, but make it so others won't suffer. Make a steam group where you all will play together or something. The game has rules, those rules do not forbid going 2-4v1, they even consider it, seeing how there is an ability to block attacks from other people.
The main problem is that this thread is stickied on the general forum. People are used to dev threads being stickied up top on the central forum hub of a game - things like patch notes, release dates, known bugs lists and so on.Originally Posted by Zeo-XIII Go to original post
This is the equivalent of stickying someone's 50 page fanfiction of how Ned Stark actually survived his execution and became the transgender queen of Westeros on the official GRRM/ASOIAF forums (if there were any) and new readers come on and it's the first thing they see. "What, really? Wow, i guess I must have been reading the books wrong".
On the note of 2v2 ganking - last night I played with a newly made friend (orochi main). We got a couple vs us who were more or less our equals and we didn't gank each other. We just sort of had a silent understanding about it. But is this the norm? Hell no. Best way to see it's not even encouraged by the devs: the bots gank you in 2v2. Sometimes they even run like maniacs right from the start of the match to 2v1 someone.
If/when this game gets competitive I expect such cheesy 2v1 rushes to become a thing depending on the enemy class composition. It's like proxy rushing in an RTS game - occasionally it will give you a huge lead or easy win if it catches the opponent off guards.
As to the OP: fair point. I will read everything you wrote and address it accordingly:
On the contrary, the whole concept is entirely optional. I might wish to employ your code only in 1v1. I might only wish to use the salutes/good fight. You cannot presume any ownership on this "code" thing or any means of imposing your will on how people use it.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
I'm glad you added this after 100 pages of feedback from the player base. But remember that people enjoy winning just as much as they enjoy ranking up. Going into an unranked mode doesn't mean I want to play with Gimpy the Gimpdin on my side who doesn't use half of the ingame features to actually win the bloody fight!Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
This stuff again. Who died and made you King?Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
This is nice to have, of course you can't expect the 13 year old Xboxers to not behave like such.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
Wise, but also hard to do. Because we are emotional beings and in any form of competitive enviromnemt we will get tilted, especially if we perceive to have been wronged either by our opponent or by "ill luck" even. Imagine you wrecking someone 2 times in a row in a duel and in the third match he wins by a hair's brath and starts taunting you. How many times can you endure it before you retort? If it's your first duel of the day - sure. What if it's your 25th duel and you've been on an 8 duel losing streak? And then you beat him in match 4? Sometimes it feels good to give them a taste of their own medicine. Although I do see where you're coming from I don't think that ANYONE would follow this at 100% of the time, unless they were recording/streaming and would wish to seem so mannered and above things.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
I disagree for anything above 2v2 brawl. And for ranked 2v2 brawl I don't ever want to see this.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
This is absurd, there are feats and map mechanics specifically meant to regen health. Running away to heal instead of suiciding on someone's pike so you can wait for an extended death timer is absolutely gimping yourself and your team. If you don't want health regen go in 1v1 duels.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
I like both, but I could do without them. The behaviour of the person after he has defeated me in a duel will almost always irritate me, regardless of what they have done. The UTMOST gesture of respect is for them to accept a rematch. It doesn't matter if they teabag me, spam emotes or drop to the ground, I'm already irritaded - mainly at myself for not playing properly.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
No I disagree. positioning is key in the larger melees, as is awareness. Yesterday I had a duel vs a Peacekeeper. The only time she beat me was in a map with 4 large pillars in the middle. She hid about and stabbed me, then ran away. I think it was a perfect way to play an assassin and it taught me how to guard against such behaviour in the future. You don't go and wait like a mule while the polearm wielding maniac gets into the perfect position to bash your 3 health bar head in. There is a reason why the different classes have different walking speed and varying amounts of gap closers.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
You can choose not to use a feat that would give you a considerable advantage over your opponent in a given fight situation as a gesture of respect.[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
You can choose to save said feat to just gib a more dangerous enemy. Otherwise - no.
I personally would view this as a gesture of disrespect. As if you're saying "look, I'm so much better than you i don't even need to punish your mistakes by throwing you off the cliff". I would perceive it as arrogance and I would immediately try to punish you in return. Throw people off cliffs. This is the best way to make them lEARN how to avoid/counter it. I would have never learned this unless I got mauled by my orochi friend time and again on the narrow bridge and we then started talking and practicing. Also, you might as well not play a good grappler class if you're not going to use their main advantages in battle.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
This is not The Sims. You do NOT let enemies recuperate. This is actiavely working against your team. I would HATE having such a player on my team. This is a FIGHTING GAME, the objective is to kill the enemies as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Yes, evein in unranked. Now you're going into territory that will actually get people on your team tilted. It's like passive-aggressive toxicity and I view it as the equivalent of doing "Solo mid or feed" on a moba and just running face first into the enemy team and toweres, feeding them kills. This honour stuff is all good but don't actively work to hinder your team and help the enemies! You like an enemy so much? Message them, add them, play 1v1 duels. Don't ruin the match for the others who are trying to win by becoming besties right in the middle of the breaking phase.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
It seems to me like what you want is an endless match of 1v1 duels. This needlessly protracts the game and exposes your team to further risk of loss.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
If you are utterly full of it and you have a superiority complex, then sure. I hope you get butchered in that 1v2Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
I view using them at any time to be daft and against the spirit of a competitive online game. You are either intentionally gimping yourself and your team, or you are so smug and sure of your abilities that you beleive that even giving a significant advantage to your enemies will still not result in a loss. At the very least, most of these prolong the match which is annoying and pointless. For people with limited time to play, being stuck in a team with Sir Doesn'tExecute, Lord GoandRegenhealth and BaronNeverhelps will be frustrating as all hell.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
Players learn and overcome. And by doing this babying and handholding you are depriving them of earning a hard won fight. I play warden mostly for now. If a Nobushi didn't use her range and poison it would be much easier for me, but I wouldn't get the awesome feeling of having overcome a disadvantageous situation through my own skill and cunning. I would wail on her with heavies untill she dies and I would think "I guess this guy is new" Classes having advantages over other classes is good and winning as the disadvantaged class feels great.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
You presume too much. Have you any statistical, scientific data on what tilts players the most? For me it's neither of those two things. Being ganged upon is normal, and it's either the result of your own poor awareness and placement or the enemy team is losing their advantage on other fronts to focus on you. if you manage to stall them or escape with your life by using revenge and running away it's actually a way to create space for your team and turn their focusing of 3 players on you into a mistake. I agree that toxicity is bad but the only way to remove it to remove chatting with the enemy team and emote spamming.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
Thank you for sharing this intimate information with us. Tell us about your childhood.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
You might get flamed at higher ranks if you are 0 in 6, i personally haven't been flamed yet. You will surely get flamed if someone sees you actiavely hindering the team though.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
It sure does in a 2v2 brawl but I don't expect it and I would accept a gank. It would feel weird and immersion breaking in the 4v4 melees.Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
You continue to apologize time and again about how you will be intentionally gimping the team because this is the way you enjoy playing the game. I only hope ranked modes come faster so I don't have to deal with someone not instantly killing an opponent or not executing them because he is sir Palador the Galliant and this is how he enjoys playing the game (ie. he enjoys losing)
@OLEGSANDER:
Actually I do not say any of the things you mentioned. I can only advise you to read the actual first post before replying to what you assume it is going to be
@ZEO-XIII:
Calling for a delete might be bit much, don't you think? Even if you disagree I am hardly breaking any forum rules.
Also I think you are far overestimating the number of players who follow a play-to-win philosophy in For Honor. While I cannot call the poll representative seeing as there is somewhat above 200 votes for a few hundred thousand or even millions of players it is interesting to notice that the percentages for each response have barely fluctuated since about 40 votes in. Including the positive responses to this thread I think your claim that 'we all play to win' might be somewhat of an exaggeration based on projecting your own values on others.
@Ceremonsen:
Agreed
@kressnik:
I understand the frustration but as I mentioned in the thread. My matchmaking rating will actually account for that self-imposed handicap in the long run, so I will still bring my team pretty much exactly the win chance which I was matched for.
@satorbg:
Since your post is so detailed I will address it in it's own response. Might take a while though, I am only in the forums for a few minutes. Thank you for taking the time to read for now anyway.
I will try to overgo the polemic nature of most of your response and reply to the actually contained arguments. You do seem to take something not deliberately directed at you rather personal thoughOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
Having this as a sticky is not exactly something I would call a problem. If you look at the subforums there is also some other posts from players stickied. G
I do not even want it as a 'norm'Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original postYou are assuming an Intention I do not have.
So do I. In ranked play I would even employ themOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original postBeen playing starcraft 2 for a while competitively
Of course I can claim ownership of this code. It is literally an arbirtrary mental construct that I created and gave a name to. If you created somewthing from your own volition and gave a name to it, it would also be yours.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
What I cannot do is to demand or expect anyone else to follow this. And I DO NOT do thatAs stated multiple times. I am not imposing my will on anyone. I am offering this as a possibility that people can embrace and use for their own purpose or go against completely with no judgement on my side.
It is only 10 pages and I added it after about 3 but as I said you seem prone to the polemic side of argumentation.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
Also no offense, but it is not any responsibility of mine to play according to your wishes, just as it is not yours to play according to mine.
Again it is my own definitionOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original postI do not enforce this code on anyone, but I do have the right to explicitly define what I mean by this code and as such who I deem to be playing by it or not. Again it is an arbitrary but clear definition that does not claim to be the only one or the 'right one'. It is just one. My one if you want to call it that. As seen in the polls a lot of people who even do follow a code of honor have different ideas about it. And they are equally eligible as any other including play-to-win strategies .
Thankfully I am not expecting anyone to do anything ^.^Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
You are absolutely rightOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
It is really really hard. So far I have endured for an accumulated 50 game hours in For Honor and there were moments where I almost break my own self-imposed rules.
I implored the same behavioural rules in C&C Renegade for 2 years back then not slipping once. My clan kind of built a reputation around never flaming. It was remarkably nice.
Still I admit that it takes a lot of self control or ...tranquility.
You are free to, as is anyone elseOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original postHonestly I am already glad if anyone takes anything positive from any of the rules. I still appreciate people being nicer, even if the do not follow the DCoH to the letter. As I said a lot of negative responders just assume that I want to enforce something on them.
Which I can understand, seeing as there is a rather obnoxious toxic crowd in this community that HAS and is STILL trying to enforce something like this on others. But as I said a few times. I am just not one of them
I never said I do not want health regenOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original postI said that I do not interrupt a running battle with an opponent to reg up.
Hehehe yeah xD That is also the main thing that I get irritated about. Though I will admit that any kind of gloating or exp****ly taunting behavour from my opponent does make it feel worse.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
You are absolutely right with most of arguments hereOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
As mentioned the gestures are all arbitrary handicaps of different severity to be applied as much or as little as you want. I tend to go for most of them particularly if I deem an opponent to behave decently enough. But I also don't apply them all the time. That is why I mentioned in the disclaimer for them to be optional and situational. If you want you can call them exaggerated gestures of respect.
And no, in a breaking phase I would probably not apply any of them unless my opponent does so as well
I actually enjoy most of my 1v2's and I would not call it a superiority complex. It would be that if I expected to win most of those. Which I neither expect nor doOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
I am intentionally handicapping myself for the sake of heightened enjoyment partly due to the challenge involved partly due to an almost roleplaying aspect to it, so far you are right.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
Still, I do understand your mentioned frustration and the apology I ushered for it is a serious one.
If I am not strong enough to give my opponent a hard won fight with my selfimposed handycap, someone else willOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
I neither expect nor would I want every single player to follow this code. I actually like the mix of flavors in playstyle in the community. Also unless you are literally the best player in For Honor you will easily find a challenge in the Matchmaking in the long run. I am not hampering anyone's advancement in the game, I am just providing a lower actual playstrength than I could, but I do so consistently. That means that I am matched for it accordingly.
No, I do not have any statistical scientific data. I don't think anyone hasOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original postI am talking from my very limited point of view and own experience. I should have emphasized that fact though, so ... my aplogies.
And as for the toxicity. I know a lot of games went this way because the problem just got out of hand. I am not sure it is the only way to diminish the nastiness somewhat but so far it is the only proven way, albeit a somewhat drastic one.
Still don't know why you make this personal, but suit yourself ^.^ Thankfully you bring up enough decent points outside of that to justify a response nevertheless.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
That is a possibility though funnily enough it hasn't happened yet through all of alpha and beta playOriginally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
Still, seeing as blaming your teammates in a team game is the easiest way to diminish your own feeling of failure I expect to be flamed at some point (when players expectations about their winrates rise with their skill) mostly regardless of whether I actually made an error or not. The Moba communities are excellent examples of this happening on a regular basis.
I don't expect it either. And there is not lack of acceptance on my side. I also don't feel it to be immersion breaking I tend to feel like it's a nice temporary change of pace.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
Ahahaha xD I actually like some of the nicknames that you apply. While not exactly flattering, some of them are funny.Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
Although despite your gross oversimplification of me and my intentions I do not enjoy losingI still try to win, I just don't do it with all and every tool at my disposal.
I know what it means to play-to-win and I have done so in multiple other games in the past. In this one I choose not to, unless I decide to sometime delve into ranked with a serious competitive spirit. And even then I would still refrain from using pschological warfare (i.e. flaming taunting to imbalance your opponent.)
@pYx.alfomatico:
Hah, almost missed your post because it was the last on the page before!
And you are not the only one to be glad about finding someone else with a similar interpretation
My only noteworthy background in fighting games was being on a decent level in the soul calibur games. But It gave me profound understanding of, mixups, wake-up play, spacing, frame-data, combos etc. You know the whole terminology and what's actually behind it. And Yes I imagine with an actual background in fighting games (especially those with a difficult execution) you'd do impressively on cancel-heavy class like the berserker
I also had someone ask me to actually go for some dules to train them recently. Was a nice experience.
Hope to see you in game some time
@CptnFlags:
I wrote that code so thank you very much for the +5 I guess xD
Somewhat of a pessimistic outlook. The polls are nice and I already met a decent amount of players following this or similar codes
Also I don't mind the ganking.
My post was intended to be filled with some humorous jabs but because I am loathe to overuse emoticons it might have come off as the rant of a sulking brat. You coming from the SC2 competitive scene gave me a clearer angle of what you want to achieve. Essentially a "WhiteRA" type of online manners when it's not grossly hampering your team (like throwing the game because you would not execute enemies etc.) I understand better now, especially since you admit that the ranking/ladder competitive mentality deos have its place and you would have it as well. It might be worth adding that you see the unranked modes as some sort of casual, laid back gaming mode that would be done mostly for recreational purposes. Kind of like CoOP in SC2, to let off the pressure of the ranked ladder grind.
In that case I would agree, though I myself would still not refrain from feat use or shoving people off ledges. That being said, I would love you to add me and teach me in 1v1 as I only played the open beta and am but a simple page in skill.
The fact that I bought a controller today and have to learn how to use it won't help my battle readyness much though.
@satorbg:
The humorous jabs, while humorous, could have easily escalated this, if I wasn't so intent on temperance
Still I am very glad that in the end - judging by your latest response - you do understand my intention now. So I am happy to have put in the time into my response. Yes, WhiteRA is a good example for this.
And as long as there is only 'one' mixed game mode and ranked and unranked are not seperated I will play the game with a 'casual' mindset. Mind you I will still try to master the combat mechanics and play an enormous amount of time, but I will not do it for the only and single purpose of winning and ranking up. I might reconsider if explicit ranked modes get implemented.
Also ... abolishing a strict play-to-win philosophy can be somewhat of a relief. You talk of the pressure of the ranked ladder grind in SC2. While it is thrilling it has not always been enjoyable. Cutting yourself some slack in both matters of skill and winning can actually make you enjoy a game more..
And as someone not aiming for a pro-career, enjoyment is exactly the main motiviation I have in playing games ^.^
EDIT (totally slipped this one): As for your question regarding training. I surely wouldn't mind in general. But for the moment I am trying to get in as much playtime with my friends beside work and familiy as possible. Also I am at best slightly above average, you can find better players than me easily. If you are still interested in it in a few days drop me a note.
Well after a day of release I can tell not many if any of the people I fought in duel or brawl adhered to ANY of this. Duel has turned into how many times can I throw spam until I push you off ledge. Fun. Brawl was much more honorable in beta but this is what happens when you release it to the masses. Cheese spam city.