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View Poll Results: Will you play by the DCoH?

Voters
459. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, gladly

    137 29.85%
  • Maybe, I haven't decided yet

    26 5.66%
  • No, I have my own Code of Honor

    150 32.68%
  • No, but I will accept DCoH players

    59 12.85%
  • No and I think nobody should

    87 18.95%
  1. #101
    First 4 points are okay. Those are common sense. Other 2 are not. I will do everything I can to secure the victory, no matter what. If I see someone from my team doing this, I will act disrespectful towards him, because his egoism, costs me victory. Wanna act honorable by playing as characters who rape, kill, steal, raid etc? Go ahead, but make it so others won't suffer. Make a steam group where you all will play together or something. The game has rules, those rules do not forbid going 2-4v1, they even consider it, seeing how there is an ability to block attacks from other people.
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  2. #102
    Originally Posted by Zeo-XIII Go to original post
    Look if thats how you want to play and you want to organize around it please do it off the official forums. The fact that this thread exist influences and supports players to not follow the rules of the game and the match. If you want to play like this keep those actions to the duel playlist only. I'm sick and tired of seeing 4v4 dominion matches go belly up because of someone else's confused sense of honor. We all play this game to win, other people shouldn't suffer because you have an unrealistic expectation of altruistic 1v1 fights while playing 4v4 playlist. That's not fair to others.
    The main problem is that this thread is stickied on the general forum. People are used to dev threads being stickied up top on the central forum hub of a game - things like patch notes, release dates, known bugs lists and so on.

    This is the equivalent of stickying someone's 50 page fanfiction of how Ned Stark actually survived his execution and became the transgender queen of Westeros on the official GRRM/ASOIAF forums (if there were any) and new readers come on and it's the first thing they see. "What, really? Wow, i guess I must have been reading the books wrong".

    On the note of 2v2 ganking - last night I played with a newly made friend (orochi main). We got a couple vs us who were more or less our equals and we didn't gank each other. We just sort of had a silent understanding about it. But is this the norm? Hell no. Best way to see it's not even encouraged by the devs: the bots gank you in 2v2. Sometimes they even run like maniacs right from the start of the match to 2v1 someone.

    If/when this game gets competitive I expect such cheesy 2v1 rushes to become a thing depending on the enemy class composition. It's like proxy rushing in an RTS game - occasionally it will give you a huge lead or easy win if it catches the opponent off guards.

    As to the OP: fair point. I will read everything you wrote and address it accordingly:

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    he actual rules are non optional.
    On the contrary, the whole concept is entirely optional. I might wish to employ your code only in 1v1. I might only wish to use the salutes/good fight. You cannot presume any ownership on this "code" thing or any means of imposing your will on how people use it.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*] While this DCoH is meant for all game modes including dominion, it is not meant for actual ranked play. To be more precise. As long as unranked and ranked are not seperated I will still apply the code. If unranked and ranked get seperated I would only apply it to unranked play. In ranked play I would still adhere to the first four rules, but I would leave out the Rule of Numbers and the Rule of Courage as well as mostly not applying any of the handicapping gestures or respect.
    I'm glad you added this after 100 pages of feedback from the player base. But remember that people enjoy winning just as much as they enjoy ranking up. Going into an unranked mode doesn't mean I want to play with Gimpy the Gimpdin on my side who doesn't use half of the ingame features to actually win the bloody fight!

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    Disclaimer: I deem all rules of the DCoH to be MANDATORY. Mandatory means that if you do not adhere to them, you are not playing by the DCoH. And that is not a judgement. You might be playing by your own code of honor or no code at all - either of which is totally fine! But the goal of this post is to describe and define one particular code of honor to be easy distinguishable from ofthers. And the rules are the very core essence of it.


    This stuff again. Who died and made you King?


    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]The rule of Respect:
    You do not ever act disrespectful towards your opponent. While enjoying ones victory is fine, any kind of demeaning behavior or taunting (similar to tea bagging or other abuse of the fallen opponent by use of emotes or otherwise) is forbidden.
    This is nice to have, of course you can't expect the 13 year old Xboxers to not behave like such.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*] The rule of Calm:
    Also in chat/voice-chat you do not ever flame or personally attack any other players in the game, even if they don’t do you the same courtesy. It also doesn’t matter if they start it and come at you aggressively. At worst inform them that you prefer to cease communication and put them on mute.
    Wise, but also hard to do. Because we are emotional beings and in any form of competitive enviromnemt we will get tilted, especially if we perceive to have been wronged either by our opponent or by "ill luck" even. Imagine you wrecking someone 2 times in a row in a duel and in the third match he wins by a hair's brath and starts taunting you. How many times can you endure it before you retort? If it's your first duel of the day - sure. What if it's your 25th duel and you've been on an 8 duel losing streak? And then you beat him in match 4? Sometimes it feels good to give them a taste of their own medicine. Although I do see where you're coming from I don't think that ANYONE would follow this at 100% of the time, unless they were recording/streaming and would wish to seem so mannered and above things.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*] The rule of Numbers:
    You do not ever actively fight with an advantage in numbers. Even if you already were in a fight, where the numbers were even. If another ally joins the fray or an opponent falls, giving you the advantage in numbers, you cease attacking and attempt to disengage, passively defending yourself as necessary should your opponent deny your disengage. You can and should support allies who are outnumbered though with full force and even if you are not supposed to interrupt other duels, you are well within your right to interrupt enemy executions. The fight has ended the moment your ally cannot fight back anymore.
    I disagree for anything above 2v2 brawl. And for ranked 2v2 brawl I don't ever want to see this.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]The rule of Courage:
    While repositioning and using the battlefield to your advantage is very much allowed, actively disengaging from an existing fight for the sole purpose of regeneration is considered forbidden.[/LIST][/SIZE]
    This is absurd, there are feats and map mechanics specifically meant to regen health. Running away to heal instead of suiciding on someone's pike so you can wait for an extended death timer is absolutely gimping yourself and your team. If you don't want health regen go in 1v1 duels.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    Pointing at a chosen opponent who is already aware of you or saluting them before engaging is considered a gesture of respect.

    [*]Duelist’s Praise:
    No matter if you beat your opponent or your opponent beats you. If the fight was a close one and you enjoyed it or deem your opponent worthy of praise for his skill, you should proclaim it was a ‘Good Fight!’ or even provide a simple ‘Wow!’ from the in-game communication menu as a gesture of respect. Just be careful to only use it, when appropriate, otherwise it can very well be understood as sarcastic taunting.
    I like both, but I could do without them. The behaviour of the person after he has defeated me in a duel will almost always irritate me, regardless of what they have done. The UTMOST gesture of respect is for them to accept a rematch. It doesn't matter if they teabag me, spam emotes or drop to the ground, I'm already irritaded - mainly at myself for not playing properly.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]Forfeit Initiative:
    A battlefield is hectic and an opponent might not always see you coming. This is especially true if you are using some of the assassin class feats which help you hide your presence. Making your presence known to your opponent and giving him the time to prepare for the upcoming fight is considered a gesture of respect.
    No I disagree. positioning is key in the larger melees, as is awareness. Yesterday I had a duel vs a Peacekeeper. The only time she beat me was in a map with 4 large pillars in the middle. She hid about and stabbed me, then ran away. I think it was a perfect way to play an assassin and it taught me how to guard against such behaviour in the future. You don't go and wait like a mule while the polearm wielding maniac gets into the perfect position to bash your 3 health bar head in. There is a reason why the different classes have different walking speed and varying amounts of gap closers.


    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]Forfeit Feats:
    You can choose not to use a feat that would give you a considerable advantage over your opponent in a given fight situation as a gesture of respect.[/QUOTE]
    You can choose to save said feat to just gib a more dangerous enemy. Otherwise - no.



    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]Forfeit Environmental Insta-Kills:
    You can choose not to explicitly aim or even avoid pushing someone down a ledge or into spikes for a quick kill as a gesture of respect. Again some classes are far better at this than others (Raider, Lawbringer for example), so for those this would mean an even bigger sacrifice.[/COLOR]
    I personally would view this as a gesture of disrespect. As if you're saying "look, I'm so much better than you i don't even need to punish your mistakes by throwing you off the cliff". I would perceive it as arrogance and I would immediately try to punish you in return. Throw people off cliffs. This is the best way to make them lEARN how to avoid/counter it. I would have never learned this unless I got mauled by my orochi friend time and again on the narrow bridge and we then started talking and practicing. Also, you might as well not play a good grappler class if you're not going to use their main advantages in battle.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]Forfeit Execution:
    If you consider your opponent to have fought so well, that you want to give him the chance to stand up again or just in general spare their life, you can forfeit an Execution as a gesture of respect.[/COLOR]
    This is not The Sims. You do NOT let enemies recuperate. This is actiavely working against your team. I would HATE having such a player on my team. This is a FIGHTING GAME, the objective is to kill the enemies as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Yes, evein in unranked. Now you're going into territory that will actually get people on your team tilted. It's like passive-aggressive toxicity and I view it as the equivalent of doing "Solo mid or feed" on a moba and just running face first into the enemy team and toweres, feeding them kills. This honour stuff is all good but don't actively work to hinder your team and help the enemies! You like an enemy so much? Message them, add them, play 1v1 duels. Don't ruin the match for the others who are trying to win by becoming besties right in the middle of the breaking phase.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*]Allow Regeneration:
    Beginning a fight against an opponent you might find yourself at a hitpoint advantage. If regeneration is close by, instead of suppressing it, you could allow your opponent to reg back to full health instead before engaging as a gesture of respect.
    It seems to me like what you want is an endless match of 1v1 duels. This needlessly protracts the game and exposes your team to further risk of loss.


    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    [*] Allow Revive:
    If you are utterly fearless or just want to fight one opponent again immediately or even aim for a 1v2, you can choose not to interrupt a revive as a gesture of respect.[/LIST][/SIZE]
    If you are utterly full of it and you have a superiority complex, then sure. I hope you get butchered in that 1v2

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    Clarification on in-fight behavior

    You might notice that the only rules to impact the actual gameplay are the Rule of Numbers and the Rule of Courage.
    While there are a lot of possible gestures of respect potentially seriously handicapping yourself even further and diminishing your performance, I consider none of them to be inherently necessary or the lack of using them to break the code.
    I view using them at any time to be daft and against the spirit of a competitive online game. You are either intentionally gimping yourself and your team, or you are so smug and sure of your abilities that you beleive that even giving a significant advantage to your enemies will still not result in a loss. At the very least, most of these prolong the match which is annoying and pointless. For people with limited time to play, being stuck in a team with Sir Doesn'tExecute, Lord GoandRegenhealth and BaronNeverhelps will be frustrating as all hell.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    One is class balance, where some classes would have a tremendous advantage over others when using the full extent of the gestures of respect.
    The other one is that the Honor part of the DCoH refers to the perceived honor as a player rather than any kind of ‘roleplaying your character’ -honor as derived from fantasy or history. Although it is nice of course should they coincide for you.

    But if your character has class-mechanics that could be considered dishonorable from a roleplaying perspective (traps for example), feel free to use them even while adhering to the DCoH, because from a player perspective they are just a different mechanic. The same goes for the use of terrain, poison, bleeding or draining your opponents stamina.
    Players learn and overcome. And by doing this babying and handholding you are depriving them of earning a hard won fight. I play warden mostly for now. If a Nobushi didn't use her range and poison it would be much easier for me, but I wouldn't get the awesome feeling of having overcome a disadvantageous situation through my own skill and cunning. I would wail on her with heavies untill she dies and I would think "I guess this guy is new" Classes having advantages over other classes is good and winning as the disadvantaged class feels great.


    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    The primary reason regarding the first four rules is atmosphere of the game. And again, I am not talking about atmosphere in a roleplaying sense but rather the atmosphere as a competitive environment of a game.
    For me personally toxicity in competitive games has been a major diminishing factor to my enjoyment of any game, where I participated in the community, even if I could power through it. For Honor by it’s very design with it’s presentation, the emotes and the executions is already aimed at a personal feeling of pride and skill. It provides an intense impact to both your victories and your losses. Emotions will run high in such an environment, even if people want to be nice about it initially. Frustration and Anger are quick to be relieved onto other players.
    The overall goal of the rules is to diminish some of these already unpreventable unpleasant effects by abstaining from any kind of provocation and by avoiding two types of situations, that tend to push people over the edge. One of which is being ganged up upon, the other one is having an enemy escape when you feel like you had won the engagement and having your kill denied.
    You presume too much. Have you any statistical, scientific data on what tilts players the most? For me it's neither of those two things. Being ganged upon is normal, and it's either the result of your own poor awareness and placement or the enemy team is losing their advantage on other fronts to focus on you. if you manage to stall them or escape with your life by using revenge and running away it's actually a way to create space for your team and turn their focusing of 3 players on you into a mistake. I agree that toxicity is bad but the only way to remove it to remove chatting with the enemy team and emote spamming.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    The other reason is a heightened sense of challenge and accomplishment. You will find yourself in situations where you have to face multiple opponents more oft than not and personally I enjoy that a lot. Ganging up on someone gives me a rather hollow feeling of victory, but this is really personal preference.
    Thank you for sharing this intimate information with us. Tell us about your childhood.

    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    But I will also usher a warning to everyone trying the DCoH. If you are not immune to frustration yourself, … getting flamed by your team, taunted by the opposing team ganging up on you, not getting a single kill before you lose the game and your opponents proclaiming how easy their win was because you are so stupid … might be taxing to some.
    You might get flamed at higher ranks if you are 0 in 6, i personally haven't been flamed yet. You will surely get flamed if someone sees you actiavely hindering the team though.


    Originally Posted by LordKaterchen Go to original post
    At the same time seeing an opponent approach an already running duel that you are in and then realizing that he stopped and waits for you to finish, rather than hack you in the back, feels really nice.
    It sure does in a 2v2 brawl but I don't expect it and I would accept a gank. It would feel weird and immersion breaking in the 4v4 melees.

    You continue to apologize time and again about how you will be intentionally gimping the team because this is the way you enjoy playing the game. I only hope ranked modes come faster so I don't have to deal with someone not instantly killing an opponent or not executing them because he is sir Palador the Galliant and this is how he enjoys playing the game (ie. he enjoys losing)
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  3. #103
    @OLEGSANDER:
    Actually I do not say any of the things you mentioned. I can only advise you to read the actual first post before replying to what you assume it is going to be

    @ZEO-XIII:
    Calling for a delete might be bit much, don't you think? Even if you disagree I am hardly breaking any forum rules.
    Also I think you are far overestimating the number of players who follow a play-to-win philosophy in For Honor. While I cannot call the poll representative seeing as there is somewhat above 200 votes for a few hundred thousand or even millions of players it is interesting to notice that the percentages for each response have barely fluctuated since about 40 votes in. Including the positive responses to this thread I think your claim that 'we all play to win' might be somewhat of an exaggeration based on projecting your own values on others.

    @Ceremonsen:
    Agreed

    @kressnik:
    I understand the frustration but as I mentioned in the thread. My matchmaking rating will actually account for that self-imposed handicap in the long run, so I will still bring my team pretty much exactly the win chance which I was matched for.

    @satorbg:
    Since your post is so detailed I will address it in it's own response. Might take a while though, I am only in the forums for a few minutes. Thank you for taking the time to read for now anyway.
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  4. #104
    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    The main problem is that this thread is stickied on the general forum. People are used to dev threads being stickied up top on the central forum hub of a game - things like patch notes, release dates, known bugs lists and so on.

    This is the equivalent of stickying someone's 50 page fanfiction of how Ned Stark actually survived his execution and became the transgender queen of Westeros on the official GRRM/ASOIAF forums (if there were any) and new readers come on and it's the first thing they see. "What, really? Wow, i guess I must have been reading the books wrong".
    I will try to overgo the polemic nature of most of your response and reply to the actually contained arguments. You do seem to take something not deliberately directed at you rather personal though
    Having this as a sticky is not exactly something I would call a problem. If you look at the subforums there is also some other posts from players stickied. G

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    On the note of 2v2 ganking - last night I played with a newly made friend (orochi main). We got a couple vs us who were more or less our equals and we didn't gank each other. We just sort of had a silent understanding about it. But is this the norm? Hell no. Best way to see it's not even encouraged by the devs: the bots gank you in 2v2. Sometimes they even run like maniacs right from the start of the match to 2v1 someone.
    I do not even want it as a 'norm' You are assuming an Intention I do not have.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    If/when this game gets competitive I expect such cheesy 2v1 rushes to become a thing depending on the enemy class composition. It's like proxy rushing in an RTS game - occasionally it will give you a huge lead or easy win if it catches the opponent off guards.
    So do I. In ranked play I would even employ them Been playing starcraft 2 for a while competitively

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    As to the OP: fair point. I will read everything you wrote and address it accordingly:

    On the contrary, the whole concept is entirely optional. I might wish to employ your code only in 1v1. I might only wish to use the salutes/good fight. You cannot presume any ownership on this "code" thing or any means of imposing your will on how people use it.
    Of course I can claim ownership of this code. It is literally an arbirtrary mental construct that I created and gave a name to. If you created somewthing from your own volition and gave a name to it, it would also be yours.
    What I cannot do is to demand or expect anyone else to follow this. And I DO NOT do that As stated multiple times. I am not imposing my will on anyone. I am offering this as a possibility that people can embrace and use for their own purpose or go against completely with no judgement on my side.


    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    I'm glad you added this after 100 pages of feedback from the player base. But remember that people enjoy winning just as much as they enjoy ranking up. Going into an unranked mode doesn't mean I want to play with Gimpy the Gimpdin on my side who doesn't use half of the ingame features to actually win the bloody fight!
    It is only 10 pages and I added it after about 3 but as I said you seem prone to the polemic side of argumentation.
    Also no offense, but it is not any responsibility of mine to play according to your wishes, just as it is not yours to play according to mine.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    This stuff again. Who died and made you King?
    Again it is my own definition I do not enforce this code on anyone, but I do have the right to explicitly define what I mean by this code and as such who I deem to be playing by it or not. Again it is an arbitrary but clear definition that does not claim to be the only one or the 'right one'. It is just one. My one if you want to call it that. As seen in the polls a lot of people who even do follow a code of honor have different ideas about it. And they are equally eligible as any other including play-to-win strategies .

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    This is nice to have, of course you can't expect the 13 year old Xboxers to not behave like such.
    Thankfully I am not expecting anyone to do anything ^.^

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    Wise, but also hard to do. Because we are emotional beings and in any form of competitive enviromnemt we will get tilted, especially if we perceive to have been wronged either by our opponent or by "ill luck" even. Imagine you wrecking someone 2 times in a row in a duel and in the third match he wins by a hair's brath and starts taunting you. How many times can you endure it before you retort? If it's your first duel of the day - sure. What if it's your 25th duel and you've been on an 8 duel losing streak? And then you beat him in match 4? Sometimes it feels good to give them a taste of their own medicine. Although I do see where you're coming from I don't think that ANYONE would follow this at 100% of the time, unless they were recording/streaming and would wish to seem so mannered and above things.
    You are absolutely right
    It is really really hard. So far I have endured for an accumulated 50 game hours in For Honor and there were moments where I almost break my own self-imposed rules.
    I implored the same behavioural rules in C&C Renegade for 2 years back then not slipping once. My clan kind of built a reputation around never flaming. It was remarkably nice.

    Still I admit that it takes a lot of self control or ...tranquility.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    I disagree for anything above 2v2 brawl. And for ranked 2v2 brawl I don't ever want to see this.
    You are free to, as is anyone else Honestly I am already glad if anyone takes anything positive from any of the rules. I still appreciate people being nicer, even if the do not follow the DCoH to the letter. As I said a lot of negative responders just assume that I want to enforce something on them.

    Which I can understand, seeing as there is a rather obnoxious toxic crowd in this community that HAS and is STILL trying to enforce something like this on others. But as I said a few times. I am just not one of them

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    This is absurd, there are feats and map mechanics specifically meant to regen health. Running away to heal instead of suiciding on someone's pike so you can wait for an extended death timer is absolutely gimping yourself and your team. If you don't want health regen go in 1v1 duels.
    I never said I do not want health regen I said that I do not interrupt a running battle with an opponent to reg up.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    I like both, but I could do without them. The behaviour of the person after he has defeated me in a duel will almost always irritate me, regardless of what they have done. The UTMOST gesture of respect is for them to accept a rematch. It doesn't matter if they teabag me, spam emotes or drop to the ground, I'm already irritaded - mainly at myself for not playing properly.
    Hehehe yeah xD That is also the main thing that I get irritated about. Though I will admit that any kind of gloating or exp****ly taunting behavour from my opponent does make it feel worse.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    No I disagree. positioning is key in the larger melees, as is awareness. Yesterday I had a duel vs a Peacekeeper. The only time she beat me was in a map with 4 large pillars in the middle. She hid about and stabbed me, then ran away. I think it was a perfect way to play an assassin and it taught me how to guard against such behaviour in the future. You don't go and wait like a mule while the polearm wielding maniac gets into the perfect position to bash your 3 health bar head in. There is a reason why the different classes have different walking speed and varying amounts of gap closers.

    You can choose to save said feat to just gib a more dangerous enemy. Otherwise - no.

    I personally would view this as a gesture of disrespect. As if you're saying "look, I'm so much better than you i don't even need to punish your mistakes by throwing you off the cliff". I would perceive it as arrogance and I would immediately try to punish you in return. Throw people off cliffs. This is the best way to make them lEARN how to avoid/counter it. I would have never learned this unless I got mauled by my orochi friend time and again on the narrow bridge and we then started talking and practicing. Also, you might as well not play a good grappler class if you're not going to use their main advantages in battle.

    This is not The Sims. You do NOT let enemies recuperate. This is actiavely working against your team. I would HATE having such a player on my team. This is a FIGHTING GAME, the objective is to kill the enemies as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Yes, evein in unranked. Now you're going into territory that will actually get people on your team tilted. It's like passive-aggressive toxicity and I view it as the equivalent of doing "Solo mid or feed" on a moba and just running face first into the enemy team and toweres, feeding them kills. This honour stuff is all good but don't actively work to hinder your team and help the enemies! You like an enemy so much? Message them, add them, play 1v1 duels. Don't ruin the match for the others who are trying to win by becoming besties right in the middle of the breaking phase.

    It seems to me like what you want is an endless match of 1v1 duels. This needlessly protracts the game and exposes your team to further risk of loss.
    You are absolutely right with most of arguments here
    As mentioned the gestures are all arbitrary handicaps of different severity to be applied as much or as little as you want. I tend to go for most of them particularly if I deem an opponent to behave decently enough. But I also don't apply them all the time. That is why I mentioned in the disclaimer for them to be optional and situational. If you want you can call them exaggerated gestures of respect.
    And no, in a breaking phase I would probably not apply any of them unless my opponent does so as well

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    If you are utterly full of it and you have a superiority complex, then sure. I hope you get butchered in that 1v2
    I actually enjoy most of my 1v2's and I would not call it a superiority complex. It would be that if I expected to win most of those. Which I neither expect nor do

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    I view using them at any time to be daft and against the spirit of a competitive online game. You are either intentionally gimping yourself and your team, or you are so smug and sure of your abilities that you beleive that even giving a significant advantage to your enemies will still not result in a loss. At the very least, most of these prolong the match which is annoying and pointless. For people with limited time to play, being stuck in a team with Sir Doesn'tExecute, Lord GoandRegenhealth and BaronNeverhelps will be frustrating as all hell.
    I am intentionally handicapping myself for the sake of heightened enjoyment partly due to the challenge involved partly due to an almost roleplaying aspect to it, so far you are right.

    Still, I do understand your mentioned frustration and the apology I ushered for it is a serious one.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    Players learn and overcome. And by doing this babying and handholding you are depriving them of earning a hard won fight. I play warden mostly for now. If a Nobushi didn't use her range and poison it would be much easier for me, but I wouldn't get the awesome feeling of having overcome a disadvantageous situation through my own skill and cunning. I would wail on her with heavies untill she dies and I would think "I guess this guy is new" Classes having advantages over other classes is good and winning as the disadvantaged class feels great.
    If I am not strong enough to give my opponent a hard won fight with my selfimposed handycap, someone else will
    I neither expect nor would I want every single player to follow this code. I actually like the mix of flavors in playstyle in the community. Also unless you are literally the best player in For Honor you will easily find a challenge in the Matchmaking in the long run. I am not hampering anyone's advancement in the game, I am just providing a lower actual playstrength than I could, but I do so consistently. That means that I am matched for it accordingly.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    You presume too much. Have you any statistical, scientific data on what tilts players the most? For me it's neither of those two things. Being ganged upon is normal, and it's either the result of your own poor awareness and placement or the enemy team is losing their advantage on other fronts to focus on you. if you manage to stall them or escape with your life by using revenge and running away it's actually a way to create space for your team and turn their focusing of 3 players on you into a mistake. I agree that toxicity is bad but the only way to remove it to remove chatting with the enemy team and emote spamming.
    No, I do not have any statistical scientific data. I don't think anyone has I am talking from my very limited point of view and own experience. I should have emphasized that fact though, so ... my aplogies.
    And as for the toxicity. I know a lot of games went this way because the problem just got out of hand. I am not sure it is the only way to diminish the nastiness somewhat but so far it is the only proven way, albeit a somewhat drastic one.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    Thank you for sharing this intimate information with us. Tell us about your childhood.
    Still don't know why you make this personal, but suit yourself ^.^ Thankfully you bring up enough decent points outside of that to justify a response nevertheless.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    You might get flamed at higher ranks if you are 0 in 6, i personally haven't been flamed yet. You will surely get flamed if someone sees you actiavely hindering the team though.
    That is a possibility though funnily enough it hasn't happened yet through all of alpha and beta play
    Still, seeing as blaming your teammates in a team game is the easiest way to diminish your own feeling of failure I expect to be flamed at some point (when players expectations about their winrates rise with their skill) mostly regardless of whether I actually made an error or not. The Moba communities are excellent examples of this happening on a regular basis.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    It sure does in a 2v2 brawl but I don't expect it and I would accept a gank. It would feel weird and immersion breaking in the 4v4 melees.
    I don't expect it either. And there is not lack of acceptance on my side. I also don't feel it to be immersion breaking I tend to feel like it's a nice temporary change of pace.

    Originally Posted by satorbg Go to original post
    You continue to apologize time and again about how you will be intentionally gimping the team because this is the way you enjoy playing the game. I only hope ranked modes come faster so I don't have to deal with someone not instantly killing an opponent or not executing them because he is sir Palador the Galliant and this is how he enjoys playing the game (ie. he enjoys losing)
    Ahahaha xD I actually like some of the nicknames that you apply. While not exactly flattering, some of them are funny.
    Although despite your gross oversimplification of me and my intentions I do not enjoy losing I still try to win, I just don't do it with all and every tool at my disposal.

    I know what it means to play-to-win and I have done so in multiple other games in the past. In this one I choose not to, unless I decide to sometime delve into ranked with a serious competitive spirit. And even then I would still refrain from using pschological warfare (i.e. flaming taunting to imbalance your opponent.)
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  5. #105
    5+ points to those who wrote that code...but aint no one gonna follow it. I mean i completely agree and all but people are going to continue to do what they do in every game. GANK.
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  6. #106
    @pYx.alfomatico:
    Hah, almost missed your post because it was the last on the page before!
    And you are not the only one to be glad about finding someone else with a similar interpretation

    My only noteworthy background in fighting games was being on a decent level in the soul calibur games. But It gave me profound understanding of, mixups, wake-up play, spacing, frame-data, combos etc. You know the whole terminology and what's actually behind it. And Yes I imagine with an actual background in fighting games (especially those with a difficult execution) you'd do impressively on cancel-heavy class like the berserker

    I also had someone ask me to actually go for some dules to train them recently. Was a nice experience.

    Hope to see you in game some time

    @CptnFlags:
    I wrote that code so thank you very much for the +5 I guess xD
    Somewhat of a pessimistic outlook. The polls are nice and I already met a decent amount of players following this or similar codes
    Also I don't mind the ganking.
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  7. #107
    My post was intended to be filled with some humorous jabs but because I am loathe to overuse emoticons it might have come off as the rant of a sulking brat. You coming from the SC2 competitive scene gave me a clearer angle of what you want to achieve. Essentially a "WhiteRA" type of online manners when it's not grossly hampering your team (like throwing the game because you would not execute enemies etc.) I understand better now, especially since you admit that the ranking/ladder competitive mentality deos have its place and you would have it as well. It might be worth adding that you see the unranked modes as some sort of casual, laid back gaming mode that would be done mostly for recreational purposes. Kind of like CoOP in SC2, to let off the pressure of the ranked ladder grind.

    In that case I would agree, though I myself would still not refrain from feat use or shoving people off ledges. That being said, I would love you to add me and teach me in 1v1 as I only played the open beta and am but a simple page in skill.

    The fact that I bought a controller today and have to learn how to use it won't help my battle readyness much though.
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  8. #108
    @satorbg:
    The humorous jabs, while humorous, could have easily escalated this, if I wasn't so intent on temperance

    Still I am very glad that in the end - judging by your latest response - you do understand my intention now. So I am happy to have put in the time into my response. Yes, WhiteRA is a good example for this.

    And as long as there is only 'one' mixed game mode and ranked and unranked are not seperated I will play the game with a 'casual' mindset. Mind you I will still try to master the combat mechanics and play an enormous amount of time, but I will not do it for the only and single purpose of winning and ranking up. I might reconsider if explicit ranked modes get implemented.

    Also ... abolishing a strict play-to-win philosophy can be somewhat of a relief. You talk of the pressure of the ranked ladder grind in SC2. While it is thrilling it has not always been enjoyable. Cutting yourself some slack in both matters of skill and winning can actually make you enjoy a game more..

    And as someone not aiming for a pro-career, enjoyment is exactly the main motiviation I have in playing games ^.^

    EDIT (totally slipped this one): As for your question regarding training. I surely wouldn't mind in general. But for the moment I am trying to get in as much playtime with my friends beside work and familiy as possible. Also I am at best slightly above average, you can find better players than me easily. If you are still interested in it in a few days drop me a note.
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  9. #109
    Aye, i know how limited time coudl be. Anyway, cartoonz seems to be adhering to the code:

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  10. #110
    Well after a day of release I can tell not many if any of the people I fought in duel or brawl adhered to ANY of this. Duel has turned into how many times can I throw spam until I push you off ledge. Fun. Brawl was much more honorable in beta but this is what happens when you release it to the masses. Cheese spam city.
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