Orochi is broken... | Forums

[crazybread101]

I keep reading this and the whole time I'm thinking the OPs outnumbered so it's probably not a community opinion and that apparently people claim statistics are going in favor of him being balanced

But my biggest confusion was as to why zephyr strike was complained about so much I'm like 90% sure it's an assassin ability so all assassins have it and it's fairly situational also extremely obvious as he moves in said direction but I understand as a counter it's nigh unblockable but still assassin archetype
I couldn't believe parries were being complained about because most characters have them and when anyone parries it's a hell of a lot easier to get a hit

I was surprised his storm rush into a light attack wasn't complained about more because I've personally had a hard on for that ability because it's really good the counter however is it's easily blocked thus extremely hard to force it's doable just difficult I love this move and when playing with my friends who know I have a hard on for this move I'm still able to drop it in when they get a little too cocky and really start a comeback
But I've also used it to initiate chains to kill people in 10 seconds flat when they're too aggressive and honestly just not very good it also guard breaks at least twice

The slight step back forward heavy thing was also very cool less useful but cool because if they keep attacking like they normally do or use a heavy which almost always comes at the end of a combo they'll hit you most of the time

The free light attack is a useful move it's just not a very useful move outside of following a storm rush because it's been telegraphed from the start screen and unless you're playing an extremely aggressive orochi will never happen and you can just keep your guard up there naturally with most characters so it's a bit overstated

People with high kd/win loss on the forums shouldn't honestly be that surprising to anyone because that's how most forums work if they care enough to get on the forums they're probably good on at least some level (or they're artist generally) I just assume if you're on the forums you're good. I also assume that if you're complaining about something it's your character flaw and you're trying to find a solution and you probably still win most fights against them

His offense is good it's just that I feel like the op was overstating a few things that weren't really orochi specific and we're the harder to complain about moves

Moral of the story /tldr:
Jk I don't know how to shorten this effectively

But what do I know I'm just another guy

[Peligrad]

This post confuses me a bit. You mention that you hit prestige 2 during the alpha and 1 during the Beta. what class where these prestige in? You also mention that the Orochi was infuriating to face. If your prestige level was with the Orochi then I am at a loss as to why you would have trouble dealing with a class you spent so much time playing. During my Alpha time i spent the whole time playing as Orochi. In the Alpha i will completely agree that the Orochi was broken. During the beta I didn't make the same mistake and spread out my play time evenly playing all the classes. While some of the classes have a harder time dealing with the Orochi than others, there are some i found that i could easily handle the Orochi. I only found classes hard to deal with prior to me actually taking time to learn the class and their 'go-to' abilities.

I played conqueror to prestige 2 in the alpha and spread out my play time in the beta with my highest characters being prestige 1.

I know all the character's kits and common combos. I've spent a good amount of time studying all the released content, watching streamers, reading guides.
I've digested just about every bit of For Honor information that is currently available so that I know exactly which character I'm going to focus on when the game releases.

My comments stem both from w/l rates between Orochi and other characters and also from weighing each character's kit against each other in terms of offensive and defensive potential.

From my analysis, I see a glaring disparity in the tool set of Orochi verse all the other characters in the game.

That said, I am looking at a level that most players have not achieved yet. A level where players make very very few mistakes.

If you look at most people's comments about how to beat Orochi they say, "Wait for him to make a mistake and punish him."

If that's what really what has to happen to beat Orochi then yes, he is completely broken. Because within a very small amount of time, there are going to be Orochi players out there who very rarely make mistakes.

Now granted, I have not put time into Warlord yet, and I do have a suspicion that Warlord is a pretty strong match-up against Orochi.
Warlord might even be OP as many people I see here claim. I have not experienced this personally, I stomped every Warlord I came up against in the most recent Beta. But also people were much less experienced with him because he was new. I've since seen some videos of high end Warlord play and it has my interest peaked.

But you also have to look at this game in sort of a "MOBA" view because Dominion does play-out similarly to a Moba.

An overpowered attacker is much more problematic than an overpowered defender of its own right.

That's not to say that defensive advantages can't win games, but offense is much more capable of setting the pace of the game and pushing opponents into disarray- also known as carrying.

A strong defense doesn't apply pressure as strongly, giving the enemy a chance to rally.

A strong offense has more options as well since they can apply pressure on demand, where as a defense tends to be more stationary. Defenders typically aren't mobile enough to route and enemy when a fight does go in their favor. The faster offense heroes can typically easily outrun them. This isn't the case when the mobile attackers win. Defenders are typically fighting to the death, while assassins can often tuck tail and retreat to heal without handing out kill points.

An offensive loss just means you don't gain additional advantage while a defensive loss means you fall into a bigger disadvantage.

Dominion's scoring system lends itself heavily towards kill streaks as well. Another offensive advantage. If a defender is on a kill streak and you don't want to giving him kills, just don't go to where he is defending. If an attacker is on a kill streak... he's going to come find you to take advantage of the massive score multiplier he's earned.

Just some things to chew on...

[FP5_Shanks]

And here I was thinking that the Conqueror was broken because every Conqueror I see ****s on an Orochi. I saw a rep 3 Orochi get squashed by a rep 1 Conqueror and this last beta was this Conqueror's first beta, so he had no prior experience. This was happening on a consistent basis from the games I played. I got to rep 2 on both Orochi and Nobushi and shield classes are usually the most infuriating to play against. Warlord just attacks through any of your attacks if he uses a heavy attack and will just punish an Orochi for attacking.

With the Conqueror you don't even need to wait for them to make a mistake, you just punish their aggression. This is what my friend sent me on why a good conqueror smashes most assassins. When I played any of the assassin classes, besides Peacekeeper, shield men and ladies always gave a bunch of trouble (**** Valkyrie).

The conqueror keeps his guard up during the startup of his heavy attacks, so he can block an incoming attack while attacking himself at the same time if timed properly and get a guaranteed hit on the enemy. This passive grants the conqueror his counter-attacking capabilities and it also applies to the charged heavy attack. When facing a fast enemy that can dodge all your moves this is the tool you need. Just wait for the enemy to start attacking and use your own attack to block his and punish his aggression.

This passive also comes with a side effect: Since the startup of your heavy attacks counts as a block, parrying is much safer for the conqueror because even if he fails the parry there is a window where the heavy attack that comes from failing the parry will still block the incoming attack and even hit the enemy afterwards

[Karthod]

I found that the Orochi was one of my Fav Classes to go against as the moves are easy to counter. Like most characters if you understand how they work they can be counted with ease

Their moves are also somewhat predictable. The default lights and heavies on the Orochi are top attacks while storm rush is easily parried or blocked if used without a bait or as a punish. Feinting is an option but I feel like the Orochi isn't as good at taking advantage of this technique compared to say... the Warden.

Just my two cents.

[Aarpian2]

I'd actually say orochi is the most balanced class currently in the game.

He doesn't have any gimmicks which allow you to bypass the core of the game, his offensive options are varied but not overbearing, his damage is in line with his survivability, and his move set is fun to use.
When I was a worse player I thought Orochi was too strong, but now that I've played him a bunch it is much easier to see his weaknesses.

[crazybread101]

I don't know if I'd go as far as to call orochi an offensive character @peligrad I'd call him more of a hybrid because he's played as a counter attack based character who is fast so he attacks well it's just his skill set to break through a defensive is limited to his speed so offensive orochis are generally melted through

The counter based defense is what sets him apart imo because his ability to punish mistakes is so insane that if he catches you pull out one move at the wrong time it can turn the tide of battle but aggressive orochis die a hell of a lot quicker and more often so I don't know if I'd say his offensive abilities are his main skill set

[Altair_Snake]

2) Free overhead heavy attack on GB. Unlike most heroes, Orochi's overhead heavy is so stupidly fast that GB is a big enough window where he gets a free heavy overhead where most characters only get a free side light attack. Behind Peacemaker he has the second most powerful GB reward- not counting environmental kill potential that raiders and warlords have)

I thought the Zerk dealt more damage ith a top heavy off of a GB. Can he land a top heavy off of a GB, without a wall splat?

[Karthod]

I thought the Zerk dealt more damage ith a top heavy off of a GB. Can he land a top heavy off of a GB, without a wall splat?

The Orochi gets a free heavy with a successful GB and yes the Zerker's top heavy does more damage than the Orochi. Whether he can do it off of a GB though, I am not sure.

[pongkrit03]

Peligrad, I am on your side but I think you should put your argument into main forum, not this sub forum because here are a lot of Orochis, of course they gonna defend their love character, cause they don't want to admit that they win because of OP character. It is pointless to argue with them.

Actually, for me myself, I think all assassin class are a bit OP than other classes, but the strongest one is Orochi. I had this thought in Close beta, and it became clear in Open beta. Yesterday I fought with Orochi who claimed having 77 winrate. I found that he is not that great in skill, but what he does are keep dodging left, right and backward. My Raider cannot do anything as opening to him, cuz every of my attack, he can just dodge away and storm rush. Surly, it can be blocked or parried but, wait ? why do I have to be the one in defensive every time. I can't initiate him first and Most of my attack, Orochi can dodge whenever he wants, he does not need to deflect, he just dodge left and right. It does not require brain or good reaction at all to do that.

It is just as you said that we have to rely on their mistakes, which is weird because Orochi should be the class that read opponent's movement and act accordingly, not Raider like me who have to keep reading his movement and counter his Storm rush or Zepher strike to get chance to attack.

...

Storm Rush needs stamina nerf or whatever I don't know, to force them only use it when in emergency, not every fck time.

Attacking while dodging of every assassin class should be a lot slower, only successful deflection is guarantee hit.

...

My opinion may not valid enough because right now we have no ranking or whatever, so no one can't verify my skill nor I can verify other's skill. Hopefully, ranked match will come soon so we can clearly see who right, who wrong.

[whovie]

When it comes to assassins Orochi is clearly the best and it hasn't had a real nerf since the alpha as far as i know. (sounds more like a bug for the change from closed beta) It's range, speed, and damage put if over the other assassins. PK might be faster but doesn't hit as hard or have the range. Zerk has the damage but not the speed or range. I love assassins and right now I don't see much reason to play any other than Orochi. Sure it has class counters but in it's class it's easily the best.