Member
I played the Conqueror almost exclusively in this Beta, and I love it to death! In Dominion especially, it's a hell of a good time bullying people around with my bashes and shoves. The problem, however, is Dueling. The Conqueror is the absolute worst character for Duels.
First and foremost, no feint. Yes, we can cancel an attack with the omniguard, but it costs stamina to use and it's slower than a traditional feint. Against a high level player these two features render it almost completely useless. The only benefit it has is that it lets me shield rush from a standstill.
Secondly, we're way too predictable. Our only options to initiate a combo are:
1. light attack, which must be followed up with another light attack (easily parried) before following with a heavy (easily parried) and then we can shield rush.
2. heavy attack, which is incredibly easy to parry, and we can't feint out of it unless we use the omniguard. See above for problems there.
3. dodge or omniguard into shield rush, both loudly telegraphing your intent.
Basically, against any high skill player I face the only safe option I have is to fight defensive and poke people to death with singular light attacks. Anything else I do is too easily countered.
Compared this to the Warlord, which gets a guard on every light attack, super armor on every heavy attack, guaranteed counters on every block from the omniguard, an incredibly fast version of the shield rush (headbutt) that has a guaranteed follow up, etc etc.
Conquerors need something if we're ever going to be competitive in Duels, and down the road when the only players left are the dedicated fans who know all the ins and outs of every class, even Dominion will be lost to us.
Member
Conquer is strong. But you have to know that you can guardbreak every hero if you block a heavy attack and start a guardbreak immediately. They can't counter it.
Then you do heavy attack and a shieldbash. If you think the enemy dodges you can do another heavy attack instead a shieldbash.
You have to play Conquer defensivly and wait for a good opportunity. Try to shieldbash them into a wall. He is pretictable but still super strong.
Against some better players my tactic was total defense and wait for a parry or block of a heavy attack to guardbreak them and do only one heavy attack and wait again... I won these matches, but my enemy had no fun with this. And I did only use rarly a second heavy attack or shieldbash. So these enemy gets suprised by it. If the enemy has no stamina you can attack.
His charged strike is also good, because you can block and attack then form another direction or even later after the block. This suprises most players.
Junior Member
I think you missed some finer points about more advanced play with Conq but overall I agree that Conq needs some love.
In duel and brawl stamina cost and damage is terrible for the Conq and is simply outpaced by all other classes. I don't really get this because the flail is an incredibly deadly weapon if the soldier manages to hit the target and seems unrealistically easy to block/deflect with a weapon. They also skimped on any bleed effect that could've been found on a spiked flail.
Senior Member
i think the conq is fine, i played him a lot this time and in the alpha, considering the i can take on 3 people at once and win, i would say it's fine the way it is.
if any class needs some love it's the warden. now don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's weak as it's not, but it is so basic it gets a bit dull. really all it has is the shoulder bash. and because of it's limited move set it is a bit predictable.
Member
@Nephthys I admit I did forget to add the charged heavy as another initiator. It's nice and fast, but it does have its dangers, namely that you can't tech a GB while charging. You can attack first, obviously, but if you misread their intent you're risking a parry.
As I said I played the Conqueror almost exclusively this Beta and have mained it since it was released. I'm just pointing out the dearth of finesse in their kit. Compare it to the Warlord, the only other shield bearer class in the game, which has so many cool things it can do from omniguard, while all we get from it is a shield rush. It's a general problem that the devs seemed to give a lot more thought and creativity into the new classes (Nobushi, PK, Warlord, etc) than the old ones (Warden, Conq, Orochi, etc). It's something that needs to be fixed.
Playing defensively is not only boring, but dangerous. Assassins are really fast with their light attacks, so it's hard to keep pace sometimes. That's just a reflex problem on my end, but still. The Superior Block really helps here, probably why it's my favorite class, but leaving the offensive initiative to the enemy is a recipe for destruction. I will have to test the GB range in a more controlled setting, but it feels like our reach is extremely short. In all the Alphas and the Beta I have never once managed to GB after parrying on the Conq.
@TDT Yeah, it's funny how they're labeled as "heavy hitters" but their damage is so low. The easy blocking is a game design consideration, and the lack of bleed is no more strange than a longsword lacking bleed.
@ Vordred Check out my YouTube channel where I posted my Alpha vids and am currently uploading my Beta vids. https://www.youtube.com/user/RedKnightV13
I'm well aware of how strong the Conq is, but the fact remains that it lacks the tools required to really shine in high level Duels. The Warden most certainly does not lack in this regard. Their long combo is very similar to the Conq's; heavy>shield rush>heavy translates to double light>shoulder charge>double light, which is much easier to land (light attacks are harder to block/parry), does the same amount of damage as the Conq's combo (double light=heavy), and the shoulder rush is harder to dodge because it can be canceled into a GB. Add to that the extremely fast zone attack, the Crushing Counter, the ability to feint, the much more damaging heavy attacks and you have one of the best Dueling classes in the game.
Junior Member
You're completely right regarding my post, I just can't help but pick at how bleeds (a universal effect of combat) have been implemented :P
Member
Let alone the Charging Shoulder bash (which can be charged for range and can be chained directly into a GB) and the ZA is something most Conq. dream about in a duel situation.Originally Posted by Vordred Go to original post
I can imagine the Conqueror will need some fineadjustment when the time comes that the people know how to deal with him. That will be the point where the Characters will partly depend on mindgames, surprising the opponend and bring him out of concept.
I really understand how one gets frustrated if Ubisoft releases a character like the Warlord.
Comparing his kit and the kit of the Conq. who should be both "Medium" and are both Heavy the Conqueror seems underwhelming and it makes me sad.
Member
I can't argue with that. The new classes are much more fun to use because they have much more cool things to doOriginally Posted by ZenBearV13 Go to original post
At first they should buff the light attacks from the Conquer. His lights attack are so bad that I didn't used them most of the time.
It would be cool if they had the speed of a light attack combo from assassines after the first attack if you keep changing the direction of them. Would be cool and unique.
Member
The conqueror is overpowered thanks solely to his shield bash. If it lands, it grants you guaranteed damage. If it doesn't, there is no active way to punish it guaranteed - dodge attacks can be parried, guard breaks can be tech'd. The only thing that beats it is a light attack thrown at the same time - not after. On top of that it drains enemy stamina and can push people off ledges.
Member
At the start of the beta it felt like the Conqueror was underpowered... it was actually a disappointment to see how easily assasins could cut me down when conquerors are the only characters with "Strong defence" in there description. However after a few levels and gear upgrades I actually started to feel safe behind my shield rather than feeling like I wanted to throw the damn thing away and pick up an axe or something...I enjoy being able to defend against more than one player and accept that that will have to come at the price of being able to finish opponents... Towards the end of the beta I played using a defensive style, holding off enemies (more than one sometimes) until my asssasin pal could sneak up on them and help me finish them... a play-style I enjoy very much.
