Nobushi feedback | Forums

[Olikorn]

Only played Nobushi over the beta, up to reputation 1 (PvP was 99% Dominion, and I did some duels / brawls against AI for practice). Here's my short feedback:

- She's a blast to play, I feel she has a lot of options to handle many situations, and there was still a lot of room for me to improve (whenever I died I could tell what I did wrong, it's not like I felt hopeless)
- Key strengths = range & bleed
- Key weaknesses = low HP & damage output (bleed aside), also rather weak dodges (hidden stance aside)
- Bleed really needs to be changed to *not* kill someone, leaving them at 1 HP instead (as many already said after last test). I'm sure I frustrated many players by letting them bleed to death (even after they killed me), and I've been on the receiving end of it as well. It's overpowered and not fun (especially with the many fast attacks that inflict bleed, so it's really hard to prevent in the first place)
- I mostly struggled against Warlords and Conquerors, when I was unable to keep them at range: due to their high HP pool it took forever for me to take them down (requiring to wait for Stamina to refill), while any mistake I made resulted in my HP bar draining quite fast
- Initially I had trouble against Peacekeepers, though it went better over time as I came to better anticipate their fast attacks (plus I think I just didn't face any experienced Peacekeeper near the end of Beta, which helped )

After just a couple of days I think it's too early to claim she's overpowered (except for the bleeding to death part), but she's definitely to be watched closely, as it's hard to say how far skilled players will push her.

PS: love the 3rd execution!

[ErraticSeven]

So, I have a suggestion that may not be a popular suggestion for Nobushi. Rather than Way of the Shark being built around extra damage from bleed, what if she instead gets a buff from another source, like getting a string of four or more hits? Currently, you can do a near infinite string (stamina being the only real limitation) so she can just completely destroy your health pool in one combo thanks to Way of the Shark. The speed on her dash pokes and backstrike poke make them very difficult to read (not impossible in case someone wants to chime in on that).

Honestly, currently, she stacks way too much bleed in way too short a time for way too much damage, and she can poke very quickly. I originally sided with an attack speed debuff, but that would only make her gimped beyond use now that I think into it more, and the amount of bleed she can put on is way too excessive. And she gets a lot of damage because of it, to the point of dropping many heroes purely due to Way of the Shark. It puts her way out of line with the rest of the characters. So, like I said, perhaps we trade bleed for a debuff on the majority of her attacks (leaving bleed on some of them)? We already have debuffs and buffs from other sources (Warden's top stance for example), so what if we just have a temporary debuff that can be applied at the end of the three hit or on her side dashes? Small amount of bleed on her backstep can stay but doesn't affect damage? That's just my two cents.

[Olikorn]

she stacks way too much bleed in way too short a time for way too much damage

Does Bleed stack? I haven't paid attention, but I assumed a new Bleed would just reset the timer, not add extra damage on top of a previous one.

[ErraticSeven]

Bleed itself stacks, making the amount of Damage over Time increase, but Way of the Shark is a passive that the Nobushi has that gives her extra raw damage any time she hits someone who is afflicted with bleed. It's why she's so overwhelmingly potent against anyone who's already bleeding.

[Olikorn]

Bleed itself stacks, making the amount of Damage over Time increase, but Way of the Shark is a passive that the Nobushi has that gives her extra raw damage any time she hits someone who is afflicted with bleed. It's why she's so overwhelmingly potent against anyone who's already bleeding.

Ok thanks, maybe Bleed shouldn't stack then

[ErraticSeven]

It's less the stacking of bleed that's the problem since when you think about a DoT, it's a huge nerf to time to kill. The problem is the extra damage on bleeding foes and the sheer number of ways she can apply the bleed.

[CaptainPwnet]

So, I have a suggestion that may not be a popular suggestion for Nobushi. Rather than Way of the Shark being built around extra damage from bleed, what if she instead gets a buff from another source, like getting a string of four or more hits? Currently, you can do a near infinite string (stamina being the only real limitation) so she can just completely destroy your health pool in one combo thanks to Way of the Shark. The speed on her dash pokes and backstrike poke make them very difficult to read (not impossible in case someone wants to chime in on that).

Honestly, currently, she stacks way too much bleed in way too short a time for way too much damage, and she can poke very quickly. I originally sided with an attack speed debuff, but that would only make her gimped beyond use now that I think into it more, and the amount of bleed she can put on is way too excessive. And she gets a lot of damage because of it, to the point of dropping many heroes purely due to Way of the Shark. It puts her way out of line with the rest of the characters. So, like I said, perhaps we trade bleed for a debuff on the majority of her attacks (leaving bleed on some of them)? We already have debuffs and buffs from other sources (Warden's top stance for example), so what if we just have a temporary debuff that can be applied at the end of the three hit or on her side dashes? Small amount of bleed on her backstep can stay but doesn't affect damage? That's just my two cents.

Near infinite string? Uhh what so you're just not going to block an infinite amount of times? Her attacks are actually quite easy to read. Viper's retreat will always attack in the direction she has her guard when she does it so adjust your own guard accordingly as you approach. Cobra strike is blocked in the same direction of the dodge, so she dodge attacks left you block left(this is almost universal across the board for dodge attacks). The exception here being her heavy side dodge attack which hits from the opposite direction but is much slower and should be blocked on reaction. Her kicks are very slow and in 1v1 it's very easy to dodge them on reaction.

[ErraticSeven]

Near infinite string? Uhh what so you're just not going to block an infinite amount of times? Her attacks are actually quite easy to read. Viper's retreat will always attack in the direction she has her guard when she does it so adjust your own guard accordingly as you approach. Cobra strike is blocked in the same direction of the dodge, so she dodge attacks left you block left(this is almost universal across the board for dodge attacks). The exception here being her heavy side dodge attack which hits from the opposite direction but is much slower and should be blocked on reaction. Her kicks are very slow and in 1v1 it's very easy to dodge them on reaction.

You do realize blocking doesn't stop a string and her kick breaks guard, allowing her to then follow up with a poke that then applies bleed, right? Unless you're Conq that is, but every other character can only stop a string on a perfect block or a parry. Also, hidden stance makes it pretty much impossible to read stances since it applies hidden stance, gives her a dodge property, and can chain into pretty much whatever she wants. Her kick can be triggered off any attack as I discovered. And going back to your questioning the near infinite string comment, it's the fact that she can immediately kick after her chains and continue with any other chain or skill and then kick again, creating an infinite string. But that isn't the problem, it's her bonus damage on bleeding opponents that's the problem. It's literally a case of "I hit you so therefor I hit you harder". If you never get hit, then every character is balanced, sure, but a 100% block rate doesn't mean a character doesn't have a problem.

That said, I'm not siding on the "Nobushi OP" train. She's just slightly above balance with the other characters. Just tweak the way she gets her bonus damage and make it not work of stacking bleed. Her time to kill goes to the lowest in the game simply by stacking bleed and getting bonus damage because of it. Bleed as a mechanic is supposed to be a low time to kill mechanic.

[randomjoe123]

Erratic. The kick is dodgeable. 100% of the time, by every char. Even if she does it in the middle of a chain. There is no way to land a guaranteed kick, other than the same ways you would guarantee anything (like a guard break or light attack, for instance). Most people are bad and won't. I played her for about 4 hours wrecking everyone I met, until I met someone good enough to dodge the kick every time. My play changed a lot after that .

"Hidden stance makes it impossible to read stances". This is just irrelevant. It's true of all assassins all the time, and doesn't stop them getting blocked/parried all of the time. Just learn to react.

[FriendlyKebab]

op