Prestige 3 Warden, Opinions On Balance And Matchups | Forums

[MrPideGY]

I can understand that ppl have problems whit the warlord. but i don't think he is overpowered. i have played a lot of warlord the last alpha and this alpha. also played some pk and berserk, and then i have played the warden a lot.

with the warden i feel very confident against the warlord, and i think it is because i understand how he works pretty well. But sometimes i can honestly say that the warlord have wrecked me, but then again, sometimes i have wrecked him to, even when it have been the same player, you just have to switch up your moveset, not get stuck in one specific tactic.

and that's also what i like in this game you can't play the same way against all classes. like the peacekeeper and warlord i like to have a nice distance from and keep top guard. But other wardens and kensie and raiders i like to keep close. But i haven't quite figured out the orochi and Nobushi is kinda a mystery for me. i have best chance if i can get him into a corner and just hammer him down, but from reading what op wrote i understand that it is probably a better why to do this. also i like to just throw them down the ledge because i hate those guys.

i feel that the warden is just right in strength, sometimes i hate him because i think he's attacks are a bit slow. But that is just when i do a bad match, and get mad. i think he is right where he needs to be. and i just need to become better whit him

[S8Canadian]

Do you believe all this stands, even in dominion and 2 vs 2 duels?

I hated the warden. It was the only class that people could easily get away from me with. Every time I chased I died unless it was 2 or more on1.

[The Tzeentch]

This is how I did see other clases when playing against them. Played as 2,14 wardern and in alpha onlu Orochi

NOBUSHI
-Even average player was able to perform well with them against me because of good range and me not yet knowing all what they can do.
-Against skilled players almost imposible to intiate combat against unles you are able to corner trap them or get them out of stamina.
-Once I did get close ennought it was usualy game over for Nobushi. They are extremely squishy.
-Still not hardest to fight against even when their keep away game is strong, once you trap them it is over.


OROCHI
-Average players were easy to beat. Most of average players dont use dodge/deflection mechanik.
-Against skilled player who waits you to intiate combat I strugle a lot. Baiting does not work because side stepping game is so strong with deflect.
-Impossible to corner/wall trap because they have so good mobility.
-What did work most of time was just waiting game to make them act more agressivly and wait them to make mistake. Extremelly aesy to parry and when ever they storm rush away from you chase to steal that room from them.

KENSAI
-Very weak and easy to fight against even top tier of play.
-Best players were able to use that blinding poke thing lot and smartly to sometimes get good trow out of it. But most of time i were able to read where attack is coming even when stunned/blinded what ever that effeckt is.
-What made them so easy, They never seem to heavy cancel in to light and UBattacks are much easier to parry than what people think.

WARDEN
-Very easy mostly because my own Warden game is so strong and i know what they are cabaple.
-Who I did strugle against where those wardens who knew how strong trowing game of wardens are with shoulder rush,
-Avoid top attacks against wardens because good warden will punish it 100% of time.
-very weak foward momentum in combat stance. Keep out of range to bait heavy attacks for easy parry, Dont ever get wall trapped or cornered, even baby wardens can win in those situations.

CONQUROR
-I honestly found all Shield clases very easy to fight against. Hardest ones where those who were realy agressive with them and used UBshield rushes sparingly and smartly,
-Hardest fights were against those who used their mix ups well. It is quite hard to sometimes tell to wich side they are changing their stance in high presure situations. because they are able to spam lot of attacks and blocking most of them takes lot of focus if you arent able to parry.
-I just were redy to counter guard breaks all the time and made sure that there isnt wall behind me so i dont get stunned with shield bashes,

PEACE KEEPER
-Average players who didnt have strong dodge game were realy asy to beat most of time. Very predictable class to fight agains. If they are out of range and in combat stance they mostlikely are gonna jump at you if they go to no combat stance mode they will rush grab you. And most average players didnt even know how to triple stab with grabs. (time stabs not too fast or slow)
-Good players are nightmare because I had to keep eye on side steps wich might end up more bleeding and even standing still mix up game is very hard to mind game because so much option on close range with her.
-Keep your distange to them and start attacking out of their range so they dont get triple stabs in. Be ready to parry jumping attacks or if you fail at it keep eye on guard breaks.<

RAIDER
-Everything what were wrong with Kensai pretty much aplies to Raider also but he has strong trowing game which is easy to avoid unless playing against very good player.
-Very easy to parry, all attacks are very easy to deteckt even when stunned. UBattacks are easiest in game to parry.
-Ones I did strugle where tose who kept their distance and used smart baiting to get good trows out of me. (always felt bit too confident against Raiders and Kensais who are weakest in game in my opinion)

WARLORD
-I felt that most players where about equal lvl of play with them but again more agressive ones where harder to fight agaist.
-Strugled against people who kept mixing their attacks because some attacks cant pe interupted with faster attacks and smart use of headbutt to keep my stamina low worked.
-They seem to run out of stamina easily. Just wait them to waist most of stamina then parry walk to them and trow them where ever is best in that situation.
-Edit... Very hard to parry left and right attacks because it can be very hard to see attacks coming so it will be hard to tell if it is light or strong attack.

BERZERKER
-Average plauers who didnt use dodges where trash tier but realy good ones could destroy worlds.
-Defensive style does not work aganst them. if you are not able to counter their infinite combo, then just block damage will eat lot of health from you. Good ones also combined it with that weird multi hit spin thing to just devastate your health even when blocking.
-Keep out of their range to bait them to jump in for easy parry. watch out for side steps. If they get infinite combo going then just focus to get that parry of othervise you are rekt.

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I feel like game is very well balanced and some match ups are just suppose to be harder because of obivious things like weapon reach mobility and stuff.
In 2v2 i think that joining other person to finish last one is ok because it is suppose to be brawl and not just same as duels. Infact if my team mate gets offed first i usualy go and get other person involved in to fight so i get revenge mode.. It is very easy to block attacks of extra person in 1v2 situations or even 1-3. All you need to do is keep them on same side or find choke point to fight in. Revenge mode gives you so huge boost and few free attacks and it gets activated VERY easily in those situations i end up wining against good players more easily when they are joined with average to above average player.

If you are the extra player in 1v2 situation DONT attack but use guard breaks. This helps much more than giving free blocks to build revenge mode.

[Etpi_Ezrael]

Hey, nice work with the list, as a renown 2 peacekeeper player I can understand most of your statements about the strenth of the classes.

From the perspective of an assasin player I can easily support your statement that neither of the assasins are as good as the Warlord , who easily is the "strongest" class there is. It doesnt seem to have any weakness, has great special moves and a very clunky animation which makes blocking/deflecting/Parrying harder. Sure the assasins are fast but they have nothing they can force on people to do a lot of dmg and can be killed in a single bad situation, be it a guardbreak, stamina missmanagement or a simple parry.

Classes I would rate a bit better would be the Kensei, which seems to be pretty agile for its range (even though the unblockable hit from above is near useless against people who expect it) and orochi who seems to have the strenths of an assasin (deflection , fast, agile) but nor exactly the weaknesses (like a low range or missing special attacks to force the enemy to react in a bad way).

Otherwise I can agree. Overall balance also is pretty fine already for this game is highly skill reliant and can even be won with the "worst" class against the "best" if your skill levels dont match.

[Aeecto]

Hello everyone!

Veteran Warden player here from the past 3 closed tests, just thought I'd post my opinions about balance and the match-ups for the Warden class in Duel Mode. Feel free to critique or offer counter points, I'd like to get into some serious discussion about the balance and issues going on with the closed beta by other experienced players. Below I'll list each class, provide some general opinions on the match-ups and rate them on a scale out of ten for both difficulty to face, and how well balanced they seem to be.

Orochi
Perhaps one out of every five Orochis consistently bested me in duel mode, but I felt this is because it is a very favorable match-up for the Warden. The Orochi's moves are the most easily parried in the entire game, providing plenty of opportunity to punish with a grab+heavy attack. I feel as if the Orochi may be slightly under-powered at this point in time, and he has definitely fallen far from his place as king of the first closed alpha.
Difficulty to face: 2/10 Balance: 6/10 (Under-powered)

Kensei
A class that feels very strange for me right now, and definitely feels under-powered. Only one in ten Kensei managed to beat me in Duel Mode, and these matches where very few and far between as it has to be one of the least played classes outside of the Berserker. As I mentioned before this class feels like a mess, bringing very little to the playing field and being very easily punished if not played extremely technically (I found it similar to the Orochi where I could almost always wait for and bait the parry->grab->heavy attack). Therein might lie the problem though, I feel as though the majority of the Kensei's I played did not feint or utilize his unblockable properly, but this may be because he is a relatively difficult class to dive into.
Difficulty to face: 1/10 Balance:4/10 (Very Underpowered)

Nobushi
Oh boy this is a match-up nightmare. The Nobushi is the only class in this closed beta that cannot be handled with the standard parry->grab->heavy attack combo that led me to so many victories. You have to back her into a corner to accomplish this (which is nearly impossible against a competent player) or bait her into crushing overheads while whittling her down with your zone attack. I see a lot of complaints about the Nobushi in game and on the forums here but I feel like she fills a niche role nicely, zoning characters who have no inside presence as she should, and crumpling to characters that thrive off of being highly aggressive.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: 8/10 (Very Balanced)

Warlord
This guy I have a bone to pick with. Not only is he a match-up nightmare for me specifically (it may be different for other wardens who are better at dodging his headbutt) but he seems to be the hands down winner in the passed two closed tests. I won close to around 1 out of 5 of my matches when pitted against a competent (or even incompetent) Warlord. The community has been making a lot of racket about him as well and I have to agree with the masses on this one. Simply put, in a 1v1 situation he brings too much to the table. His movements are clunky and disjointed, which give people who parry like myself a hard time. He is constantly in your face, imposing his will. His headbutt and grab moves look deceivingly similar, causing me to hesitate whenever one is used, and his headbutt drains your stamina to boot. If you compare what this guy can do to every single other class head to head it's pretty ridiculous how he stacks up, performing multiple classes roles better than they can themselves. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be tweaked, otherwise the high end Duel and 2v2 metas will be completely DOMINATED by Warlords.
Difficulty to face: 10/10 Balance:2/10 (Wildly Overpowered)

Berserker
The rarest Pokemon of them all, the lowly Berserker. It's pretty easy to see why these guys are never picked as well, they simply have nothing to offer in a 1v1 outside of ridiculous combos that are cut ridiculously short by a parry->grab->heavy attack. This class needs some major reworking in my opinion, not only to make them viable, but to boost the amount of people playing the class and thereby adding more variety to the game as a whole.
Difficulty to face: 1/10 Balance 2/10 (Wildly Under-powered)

Raider
Captain Toss-Your-***-Off himself. I won about 50% of my match-ups against highly-skilled raiders, but I believe this to be a tough match-up for the Warden (or perhaps again, for me personally). The fact that you cannot back-dash out of the range of his unblockable in most situations (I have to disengage guard mode and roll away) makes him a pain in the butt to face. Couple that with the fact that any lapse in guard breaks means that your *** is swimming makes this contest a very technical ordeal, one false move spells the end of it. All that being said I feel like this is another one of the niche roles being filled, this guy punishes you heavily for lapses in game-play basics, some might argue the punishment is too much at times, but I feel like it forces you to be on your toes that much more, and is definitely surmountable.
Difficulty to face: 6/10 Balance 8/10 (Very Balanced)

Peace Keeper
I'm just going to go out and say it that the community is dead wrong about this hero, I see a ton of whining and crying about her but I seriously cannot wrap my head around it at all. Her attacks are quick but are so easily punished with parries, and a good player will rarely be hit by her grab attack at all. The poison is a bad deal when it lands with a triple stab but that was so rare for me when I faced even the highest prestige Peace Keepers. I understand this may be a match-up nightmare for the PK, but I still feel like she is relatively under-powered at this point in time.
Difficulty to face: 2/10 Balance 5/10 (Quite Under-powered)

Conqueror
I feel like this match-up is supposed to be hard for a Warden, but this character is another example of the move-set being too technical for the majority of players. I cannot explain to you in human terms how I easily baited hundreds of heavy attack->feint->parry->grab->heavy attack, every single conqueror who has his flail spinning immediately releases it when a heavy attack is unloaded at him. The tunnel vision is absolutely ridiculous. I will hand it to them as being second best at forcing people into corners though (outside of the Warlord of course), but the shield bash can still be sidestepped easy enough even with the Wardens shorter dash range.
Difficulty to face:4/10 Balance 8/10 (Very Balanced)

Warden
Here comes the part where I have consistently pointed out the strengths of my class against the majority of the other classes but still defend the Warden as being relatively balanced. I'm not trying to heap praise on myself but I encountered very few other Wardens in mirror match-ups that played the way I do, that is; parry->grab->heavy attack while using a variety of feints, and whittling with zone attacks. It's because of these tactics that I won nine out of ten mirror match-ups, only losing when the other Warden and I would get into ridiculous overhead feint chains, each trying to bait out the other for a crushing overhead. I understand the zone attack made by the warden is ridiculously fast, but it only comes from one direction, and the shoulder charge is among the slowest and easily avoided in the game. Where we shine is what I have repeatedly stated: parry->grab->heavy attack, and I do not see enough people doing this to make the Warden feel completely overpowered.
Difficulty to face:1/10 Balance:7/10 (Slightly Over-powered)

If you've read all this you can probably gather that I did very well this passed closed beta. I won well over 75% of my duels and posted a K/D around 3.2 so take that for what it's worth. Interested in discussing any objections you guys might have as well as how you felt the Warden was balanced since I'm looking through some more-than-probably rose tinted classes.

ALSO A BIG SHOUT OUT TO EVERYONE WHO FOUGHT ME IN DUEL MODE OR 2V2, MY AMERICAN EMBLEM AND BEING DRAPED IN THE STARS AND STRIPES MAKES ME HARD TO MISS, SORRY IF I WAS SALTY OR RUDE.

That´s interesting, because i won 73,5% of all duels with my Conquerer, even he is very well balanced.
Most people just don´t know how to play him or even the basics (that´s the reason why a lot claim he is underpowered)..... you just wrote the best example that people release their heavy spinning once someone tries to attack, even you can block while spinning and if you release your spin immediatly after that block, it´s a guarenteed hit (and that hurts realy). You can even shieldbash him right away and hit again and he can´t even react in that time... that´s a realy strong combo i never saw someone using (except me and my friend).

The Warden was somehow an easy opponent for me.... won every single duel, just like against peacekeeper or nobushi. I had a lot more problems against other "good" Conquerers and very well played Warlords (sadly there werent many, but some people knew every little thing he can do.... and that was a nightmare to fight)

[Grievuuz]

Do you really ask for an Unblockable attack for Assassin Class?? Like WTF o.0 ??

Orochi , peacekeeper , berserker with Unblockable attack would make them God Tier. Simple as that.

Btw how do you post a Screenshot from Uplay?

I just uploaded it to imgur and linked it in my message.

Yes, I'm asking for an unblockable attack

- Orochi has 2, Wind Gust and Hurricane Blast

- Peacekeeper doesn't have one, but is a medium difficulty counter attacker, it's rewarded much more for capitalizing on enemy mistakes. Also bleeds are OP.

The Berserker is the weakest of the 3 for sure, the infinite combo is too easy to stop early, and heavy attacks made from above deal extra damage, so decent opponents will be especially wary of those.

The berserker doesn't have any attacks that capitalize on enemy mistakes, so yeah, it could use one, as long as the activation requirements were skill based.

[Reaper_Sykko]

Hello everyone!

Veteran Warden player here from the past 3 closed tests, just thought I'd post my opinions about balance and the match-ups for the Warden class in Duel Mode. Feel free to critique or offer counter points, I'd like to get into some serious discussion about the balance and issues going on with the closed beta by other experienced players. Below I'll list each class, provide some general opinions on the match-ups and rate them on a scale out of ten for both difficulty to face, and how well balanced they seem to be.

Orochi
Perhaps one out of every five Orochis consistently bested me in duel mode, but I felt this is because it is a very favorable match-up for the Warden. The Orochi's moves are the most easily parried in the entire game, providing plenty of opportunity to punish with a grab+heavy attack. I feel as if the Orochi may be slightly under-powered at this point in time, and he has definitely fallen far from his place as king of the first closed alpha.
Difficulty to face: 2/10 Balance: 6/10 (Under-powered)

Kensei
A class that feels very strange for me right now, and definitely feels under-powered. Only one in ten Kensei managed to beat me in Duel Mode, and these matches where very few and far between as it has to be one of the least played classes outside of the Berserker. As I mentioned before this class feels like a mess, bringing very little to the playing field and being very easily punished if not played extremely technically (I found it similar to the Orochi where I could almost always wait for and bait the parry->grab->heavy attack). Therein might lie the problem though, I feel as though the majority of the Kensei's I played did not feint or utilize his unblockable properly, but this may be because he is a relatively difficult class to dive into.
Difficulty to face: 1/10 Balance:4/10 (Very Underpowered)

Nobushi
Oh boy this is a match-up nightmare. The Nobushi is the only class in this closed beta that cannot be handled with the standard parry->grab->heavy attack combo that led me to so many victories. You have to back her into a corner to accomplish this (which is nearly impossible against a competent player) or bait her into crushing overheads while whittling her down with your zone attack. I see a lot of complaints about the Nobushi in game and on the forums here but I feel like she fills a niche role nicely, zoning characters who have no inside presence as she should, and crumpling to characters that thrive off of being highly aggressive.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: 8/10 (Very Balanced)

Warlord
This guy I have a bone to pick with. Not only is he a match-up nightmare for me specifically (it may be different for other wardens who are better at dodging his headbutt) but he seems to be the hands down winner in the passed two closed tests. I won close to around 1 out of 5 of my matches when pitted against a competent (or even incompetent) Warlord. The community has been making a lot of racket about him as well and I have to agree with the masses on this one. Simply put, in a 1v1 situation he brings too much to the table. His movements are clunky and disjointed, which give people who parry like myself a hard time. He is constantly in your face, imposing his will. His headbutt and grab moves look deceivingly similar, causing me to hesitate whenever one is used, and his headbutt drains your stamina to boot. If you compare what this guy can do to every single other class head to head it's pretty ridiculous how he stacks up, performing multiple classes roles better than they can themselves. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be tweaked, otherwise the high end Duel and 2v2 metas will be completely DOMINATED by Warlords.
Difficulty to face: 10/10 Balance:2/10 (Wildly Overpowered)

Berserker
The rarest Pokemon of them all, the lowly Berserker. It's pretty easy to see why these guys are never picked as well, they simply have nothing to offer in a 1v1 outside of ridiculous combos that are cut ridiculously short by a parry->grab->heavy attack. This class needs some major reworking in my opinion, not only to make them viable, but to boost the amount of people playing the class and thereby adding more variety to the game as a whole.
Difficulty to face: 1/10 Balance 2/10 (Wildly Under-powered)

Raider
Captain Toss-Your-***-Off himself. I won about 50% of my match-ups against highly-skilled raiders, but I believe this to be a tough match-up for the Warden (or perhaps again, for me personally). The fact that you cannot back-dash out of the range of his unblockable in most situations (I have to disengage guard mode and roll away) makes him a pain in the butt to face. Couple that with the fact that any lapse in guard breaks means that your *** is swimming makes this contest a very technical ordeal, one false move spells the end of it. All that being said I feel like this is another one of the niche roles being filled, this guy punishes you heavily for lapses in game-play basics, some might argue the punishment is too much at times, but I feel like it forces you to be on your toes that much more, and is definitely surmountable.
Difficulty to face: 6/10 Balance 8/10 (Very Balanced)

Peace Keeper
I'm just going to go out and say it that the community is dead wrong about this hero, I see a ton of whining and crying about her but I seriously cannot wrap my head around it at all. Her attacks are quick but are so easily punished with parries, and a good player will rarely be hit by her grab attack at all. The poison is a bad deal when it lands with a triple stab but that was so rare for me when I faced even the highest prestige Peace Keepers. I understand this may be a match-up nightmare for the PK, but I still feel like she is relatively under-powered at this point in time.
Difficulty to face: 2/10 Balance 5/10 (Quite Under-powered)

Conqueror
I feel like this match-up is supposed to be hard for a Warden, but this character is another example of the move-set being too technical for the majority of players. I cannot explain to you in human terms how I easily baited hundreds of heavy attack->feint->parry->grab->heavy attack, every single conqueror who has his flail spinning immediately releases it when a heavy attack is unloaded at him. The tunnel vision is absolutely ridiculous. I will hand it to them as being second best at forcing people into corners though (outside of the Warlord of course), but the shield bash can still be sidestepped easy enough even with the Wardens shorter dash range.
Difficulty to face:4/10 Balance 8/10 (Very Balanced)

Warden
Here comes the part where I have consistently pointed out the strengths of my class against the majority of the other classes but still defend the Warden as being relatively balanced. I'm not trying to heap praise on myself but I encountered very few other Wardens in mirror match-ups that played the way I do, that is; parry->grab->heavy attack while using a variety of feints, and whittling with zone attacks. It's because of these tactics that I won nine out of ten mirror match-ups, only losing when the other Warden and I would get into ridiculous overhead feint chains, each trying to bait out the other for a crushing overhead. I understand the zone attack made by the warden is ridiculously fast, but it only comes from one direction, and the shoulder charge is among the slowest and easily avoided in the game. Where we shine is what I have repeatedly stated: parry->grab->heavy attack, and I do not see enough people doing this to make the Warden feel completely overpowered.
Difficulty to face:1/10 Balance:7/10 (Slightly Over-powered)

If you've read all this you can probably gather that I did very well this passed closed beta. I won well over 75% of my duels and posted a K/D around 3.2 so take that for what it's worth. Interested in discussing any objections you guys might have as well as how you felt the Warden was balanced since I'm looking through some more-than-probably rose tinted classes.

ALSO A BIG SHOUT OUT TO EVERYONE WHO FOUGHT ME IN DUEL MODE OR 2V2, MY AMERICAN EMBLEM AND BEING DRAPED IN THE STARS AND STRIPES MAKES ME HARD TO MISS, SORRY IF I WAS SALTY OR RUDE.

finally somone who is right about the peacekeeper , just like any other class , when you learn how it works and how to counter it its not OP , adapt instead of whining.

[OtsuWow]

You write as if Warden is the only class that can Parry - Guardblock - Heavy attack, but this is something every class can do. The only classes that are out of range for this is Nobushi and Kensei. (If they space their attacks right)

The only broken thing about Peacekeeper is that she gets the exact same thing, but instead of a heavy attack she gets a bleed that does 40% of your healthpool. Remove her ability to get true guardbreak punishes and the character will be fine.

Another thing people should know is that Conquerer is a HARD counter to Berzerker. Conquerer can guard break punish berzerker if he BLOCKS (yes he doesent even need to parry) ANY attack (heavy AND light attacks)

[zefurr]

Hey uplaykissmybutt

I have one clip of us in Brawl, in case you're interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dssUXnrJMpE&t=45m15s
It starts part-way into the match, I probably forgot to press record before we started, lotsa matches got cut off like that.
Good set, keep rocking the red white and blue.

In general, I agree with your assessments, I'd probably put the Warden at "balanced" and downgrade everyone below him slightly, but really that's just a shift of the reference point.

Peacekeeper's our only disagreement, I think she's got a bit too much mobility on her back dashes and can play a very risk free game that's quite hard to deal with for many characters. Admittedly, I think Warden does well against her, so that may be the reason for our disagreement.

[CaptainPwnet]

I'd like to point out that every one of your matchups seemed to boil down to "are they easily blocked and parried?". My point being that is a fundamental problem I have noticed in this game right now. Parry is too easy to perform and offers far too great of a reward as a defensive option. Getting rewarded with good damage, or any damage at all really, for defensive options is just such bad game design. This also applies to deflects as well. If this game is going to have legitimate longevity parries and deflects both need to be reworked and should not allow for any guaranteed damage.

Also the characters that you figured you had trouble with or were pretty good are the ones with the best defensive options like Warlord and Conq. Or the characters like Nobushi that you couldn't effectively punish off parry cause of the range they fight at. This game needs some numbers tweaking to put the advantage in the hands of the aggressor not the defender.