Junior Member
Hello everyone!
Veteran Warden player here from the past 3 closed tests, just thought I'd post my opinions about balance and the match-ups for the Warden class in Duel Mode. Feel free to critique or offer counter points, I'd like to get into some serious discussion about the balance and issues going on with the closed beta by other experienced players. Below I'll list each class, provide some general opinions on the match-ups and rate them on a scale out of ten for both difficulty to face, and how well balanced they seem to be.
Orochi
Perhaps one out of every five Orochis consistently bested me in duel mode, but I felt this is because it is a very favorable match-up for the Warden. The Orochi's moves are the most easily parried in the entire game, providing plenty of opportunity to punish with a grab+heavy attack. I feel as if the Orochi may be slightly under-powered at this point in time, and he has definitely fallen far from his place as king of the first closed alpha.
Difficulty to face: 2/10 Balance: 6/10 (Under-powered)
Kensei
A class that feels very strange for me right now, and definitely feels under-powered. Only one in ten Kensei managed to beat me in Duel Mode, and these matches where very few and far between as it has to be one of the least played classes outside of the Berserker. As I mentioned before this class feels like a mess, bringing very little to the playing field and being very easily punished if not played extremely technically (I found it similar to the Orochi where I could almost always wait for and bait the parry->grab->heavy attack). Therein might lie the problem though, I feel as though the majority of the Kensei's I played did not feint or utilize his unblockable properly, but this may be because he is a relatively difficult class to dive into.
Difficulty to face: 1/10 Balance:4/10 (Very Underpowered)
Nobushi
Oh boy this is a match-up nightmare. The Nobushi is the only class in this closed beta that cannot be handled with the standard parry->grab->heavy attack combo that led me to so many victories. You have to back her into a corner to accomplish this (which is nearly impossible against a competent player) or bait her into crushing overheads while whittling her down with your zone attack. I see a lot of complaints about the Nobushi in game and on the forums here but I feel like she fills a niche role nicely, zoning characters who have no inside presence as she should, and crumpling to characters that thrive off of being highly aggressive.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: 8/10 (Very Balanced)
Warlord
This guy I have a bone to pick with. Not only is he a match-up nightmare for me specifically (it may be different for other wardens who are better at dodging his headbutt) but he seems to be the hands down winner in the passed two closed tests. I won close to around 1 out of 5 of my matches when pitted against a competent (or even incompetent) Warlord. The community has been making a lot of racket about him as well and I have to agree with the masses on this one. Simply put, in a 1v1 situation he brings too much to the table. His movements are clunky and disjointed, which give people who parry like myself a hard time. He is constantly in your face, imposing his will. His headbutt and grab moves look deceivingly similar, causing me to hesitate whenever one is used, and his headbutt drains your stamina to boot. If you compare what this guy can do to every single other class head to head it's pretty ridiculous how he stacks up, performing multiple classes roles better than they can themselves. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be tweaked, otherwise the high end Duel and 2v2 metas will be completely DOMINATED by Warlords.
Difficulty to face: 10/10 Balance:2/10 (Wildly Overpowered)
Berserker
The rarest Pokemon of them all, the lowly Berserker. It's pretty easy to see why these guys are never picked as well, they simply have nothing to offer in a 1v1 outside of ridiculous combos that are cut ridiculously short by a parry->grab->heavy attack. This class needs some major reworking in my opinion, not only to make them viable, but to boost the amount of people playing the class and thereby adding more variety to the game as a whole.
Difficulty to face: 1/10 Balance 2/10 (Wildly Under-powered)
Raider
Captain Toss-Your-***-Off himself. I won about 50% of my match-ups against highly-skilled raiders, but I believe this to be a tough match-up for the Warden (or perhaps again, for me personally). The fact that you cannot back-dash out of the range of his unblockable in most situations (I have to disengage guard mode and roll away) makes him a pain in the butt to face. Couple that with the fact that any lapse in guard breaks means that your *** is swimming makes this contest a very technical ordeal, one false move spells the end of it. All that being said I feel like this is another one of the niche roles being filled, this guy punishes you heavily for lapses in game-play basics, some might argue the punishment is too much at times, but I feel like it forces you to be on your toes that much more, and is definitely surmountable.
Difficulty to face: 6/10 Balance 8/10 (Very Balanced)
Peace Keeper
I'm just going to go out and say it that the community is dead wrong about this hero, I see a ton of whining and crying about her but I seriously cannot wrap my head around it at all. Her attacks are quick but are so easily punished with parries, and a good player will rarely be hit by her grab attack at all. The poison is a bad deal when it lands with a triple stab but that was so rare for me when I faced even the highest prestige Peace Keepers. I understand this may be a match-up nightmare for the PK, but I still feel like she is relatively under-powered at this point in time.
Difficulty to face: 2/10 Balance 5/10 (Quite Under-powered)
Conqueror
I feel like this match-up is supposed to be hard for a Warden, but this character is another example of the move-set being too technical for the majority of players. I cannot explain to you in human terms how I easily baited hundreds of heavy attack->feint->parry->grab->heavy attack, every single conqueror who has his flail spinning immediately releases it when a heavy attack is unloaded at him. The tunnel vision is absolutely ridiculous. I will hand it to them as being second best at forcing people into corners though (outside of the Warlord of course), but the shield bash can still be sidestepped easy enough even with the Wardens shorter dash range.
Difficulty to face:4/10 Balance 8/10 (Very Balanced)
Warden
Here comes the part where I have consistently pointed out the strengths of my class against the majority of the other classes but still defend the Warden as being relatively balanced. I'm not trying to heap praise on myself but I encountered very few other Wardens in mirror match-ups that played the way I do, that is; parry->grab->heavy attack while using a variety of feints, and whittling with zone attacks. It's because of these tactics that I won nine out of ten mirror match-ups, only losing when the other Warden and I would get into ridiculous overhead feint chains, each trying to bait out the other for a crushing overhead. I understand the zone attack made by the warden is ridiculously fast, but it only comes from one direction, and the shoulder charge is among the slowest and easily avoided in the game. Where we shine is what I have repeatedly stated: parry->grab->heavy attack, and I do not see enough people doing this to make the Warden feel completely overpowered.
Difficulty to face:1/10 Balance:7/10 (Slightly Over-powered)
If you've read all this you can probably gather that I did very well this passed closed beta. I won well over 75% of my duels and posted a K/D around 3.2 so take that for what it's worth. Interested in discussing any objections you guys might have as well as how you felt the Warden was balanced since I'm looking through some more-than-probably rose tinted classes.
ALSO A BIG SHOUT OUT TO EVERYONE WHO FOUGHT ME IN DUEL MODE OR 2V2, MY AMERICAN EMBLEM AND BEING DRAPED IN THE STARS AND STRIPES MAKES ME HARD TO MISS, SORRY IF I WAS SALTY OR RUDE.
Member
I played mostly the Warlord and Berserker.Originally Posted by uplaykissmybutt Go to original post
The Warlord I have found to counter most other classes. Its very defensive and the abilities to counter attacks and block make it hard to kill. The matches I lost with him were due to my mouse failing to react and even those battles were few.
The Berserker is underrated and I think its because people didn't learn how to play it. Its super mobile and hits extremely hard. I found the berserker to be extremely dangerous. Classes it struggled against were the conqueror and Nabushi or whatever that spear guy is.
I found the Berserker to be the most fun myself and I'm sure it frustrated a lot of people.
Member
I played in beta with warden 2.14prestige and in alpha played as orochi. I agree lot with lot what you said, specialy with kensei. Kensei is ultra easy to fight against and i found raider extremely easy to fight against also..
What i did find hard to fight against with Warden were any assasin clases because warden lacks attacks with foward momentum so against players with very good movement skills and smart side stepping i found my self in loosing end most of time. Also Nobushi was realy hard to fight against. Only thing what i could make work against mobile assasins or Nobushi was playing it wery slow and go for parry punishes.
I feel like game is very well balanced and it is nature of this game to make some match ups hard. Like with orochi i didnt strugle against any other assasins but found Raider and Kensai surprisingly hard to fight against compared to playing with Warden.
I found Warlord and Conquror very easy to fight against because i am very good at guard breaks and they tend to trust lot on their defence.
Member
Thanks for the detailed list of info from the perspective of a Warden.
I'd say that the Warden right now is the most powerful class in the game, partly due to the parry--> free guard break --> high damage heavy attack --> mix up advantage that follows. The reward is far too high for how easy the parry combo is to perform. Combined with good range, great attack speed, good mixups, heavy damage, more than one guaranteed damage combo, an unblockable, the parry reward just pushes Warden to the top.
Your assessment of the other classes appears to largely reflect how well those classes are able to avoid the parry --> guard break --> (optional instant zone kill or) heavy damage --> mixup trap game that is heavily abused by knowledgeable Warden players. This is a skewed perspective to take on assessing the balance of the classes in For Honor, as the other classes have a lot of pros and cons, but very few of them can fight vs the Warden's consistent and easy reward mechanic. The classes that can challenge the Warden are the ones that either won't easily let the Warden do the parry combo (Nobushi), or the ones that have a very strong grab game themselves to get around the parry problem (Warlord, Raider).
IMO the Warden either needs the damage reduced to a light attack off a guard break (probably the double guaranteed light chain, which is still better than most classes' reward from a guard break), or just have the advantage of the parry window shortened so that you can't get a guard break off a parry. Removing the heavy hit from the guard break will nerf the Warden in both parry reward and general guard breaks, so it's significant, while removing guard breaks from the parry window will force the Warden to actually use the rest of his kit instead of just wait for parry opportunities all match, so this option might be healthier for the game in general.
Member
The reason Warden is "the most powerful" is because hes the simplest to use. Everyone else people are still trying to figure out all the little intricacies of their movesets. Yes you may learn the move set but it doesnt mean you know the best times to use certain attacks. What i saw on line was a lot of people using like half the moveset of the guys they were using. You cant really judge the warriors over 3 days. After a month of release this game is going to be crazy considering all the different strategies with all the warriors that have yet to be figured out.
Junior Member
I had a lot of fun with the Berserker this beta. It was a rough start and extremely up-hill the first 20-25 hours, but it got better.
It's super agile and very fun to play, but excruciatingly difficult.
The infinite combo is too easy to break, it's supposed to be the bread and butter, but you get it going 1 out of 20 tries, and a full body block, revenge, friendly fire, basically if anything sneezes - your combo is over. The infinite combo is also where all your damage should come from, but if you cant get it going, you're gonna get out-tempo'd and need to back off.
Low defenses -Squishy AF
No unblockable attack. Calling the design choices into question here, there are a plethora of unblockable attacks in the game, but out of all the classes, the berserker is left out?
That being said, it was still a good time and I had fun. The class definitely needs more oomph though.
Member
Member
Hello guys, and hello uplaykissmybuttdatname - thank you for making this thread.
I'll reply using the same format as in your original post: don't worry, I'll keep it brief.
Nobushi
A match-up-nightmare indeed.
The only technique I've developed to counter one of them (aside from the crushing counterstrike bait) is parrying and dealing some damage using the zone attack.
Sometimes I also manage to sidestep and lock her in a shoulder bash-doublelight chain, which proved really effective but it is almost impossible to pull off consistently aganist a skilled Nobushi.
That aside, I think the bleeding effect (poison?) might be a little too strong: a successfull light combo\ kick 'n poison stab combo (the unblockable one) will drain off almost half of your healthbar
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: 7/10 (Slightly Over-powered)
Warlord
Dodging his headbutt (or punishing it with a top light attack) is way easier than avoiding the Nobushi's trademark kick 'n stab spam, but I get your point.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance:8/10 (Ok)
Peace Keeper
You don't know what true pain is unless you've faced a lagging turkish PK spamming the zone attacks and feints.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: P2P/10
Warden1v1 me, m8.
In all honesty, I think the warden is fine as it is.
You don't have the flashiest moves, but you have the possibility to adapt to any situation you're facing.
Difficulty to face:1/10 Balance:8/10 (Ok. Give us a plunging attack.)
Junior Member
Originally Posted by Manguste.Basso Go to original postHello guys, and hello uplaykissmybuttdatname - thank you for making this thread.
I'll reply using the same format as in your original post: don't worry, I'll keep it brief.
Nobushi
A match-up-nightmare indeed.
The only technique I've developed to counter one of them (aside from the crushing counterstrike bait) is parrying and dealing some damage using the zone attack.
Sometimes I also manage to sidestep and lock her in a shoulder bash-doublelight chain, which proved really effective but it is almost impossible to pull off consistently aganist a skilled Nobushi.
That aside, I think the bleeding effect (poison?) might be a little too strong: a successfull light combo\ kick 'n poison stab combo (the unblockable one) will drain off almost half of your healthbar
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: 7/10 (Slightly Over-powered)
Warlord
Dodging his headbutt (or punishing it with a top light attack) is way easier than avoiding the Nobushi's trademark kick 'n stab spam, but I get your point.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance:8/10 (Ok)
Peace Keeper
You don't know what true pain is unless you've faced a lagging turkish PK spamming the zone attacks and feints.
Difficulty to face: 9/10 Balance: P2P/10
Warden1v1 me, m8.
In all honesty, I think the warden is fine as it is.
You don't have the flashiest moves, but you have the possibility to adapt to any situation you're facing.
Difficulty to face:1/10 Balance:8/10 (Ok. Give us a plunging attack.)
Holy crap, them blinking, sidestepping PKs from the moon are absolutely ridiculous. Always at the top of the boards for kills, really need something done about this. And this comes from a Rep 1 PK.
As for the Berserker, perhaps a the jumping overhead could be unblockable? It's slow anyway.
