There needs to be a better way of defending against multiple attackers | Forums

[Zemus-]

You really didn't understand my post, which when I first typed it out, was a concern of mine that people would not read or comprehend properly. It is not about remaining in an outnumbered situation, it is strictly for when you are stuck in one, by any means. When you can't do anything but get hit, which stops you from moving, rolling, dodging, etc. Not what happens before it, or evading it before it happens. My post was about when you are engaged in combat, IE; locked onto another opponent. Not still running, or anything else. It has nothing to do with just "not being able to handle the numbers". You wouldn't be able to handle it either, so that statement was pretty pointless. This topic doesn't include moments where you can run away, and running away is definitely not an option when you are getting smashed left, right, and centre. It is about where you are stuck against 2 or more opponents with nowhere to go. This also has nothing to do with me being new to the game, as before mentioned I was in on the alpha and played that heavily, as well as getting some serious time in this. I previously mentioned I play the objective, and don't care enough about a K/D ratio, so I have absolutely no clue why that was even mentioned.

Your reply is a product of a L2R issue.

Strongly disagree with you. If you are on a Point being attacked by 2-3 an can't run you can fight. Sure you won't always win, hell you will lose more than you win but you CAN win or at the very least TRY to hold them off until your team can arrive to help. Tapping L1 lets everyone know instantly you need help at X location or better yet play with people who use a mic. You can defend against 3 people attacking from all sides. When you successfully block you AUTO BLOCK all directions for half a second, It is a dire situation but dying fast usually means you are panicking and loosing focus. Stay locked on a target because it makes blocking those you are not locked on to a lot easier, wait for revenge as it will become your key to what happens next if your Fight or Flight and both are acceptable

[TheEternalVoid]

I play the Samurai Assassin character and I am fairly good at it, I only really struggle when it is 3v1 or 2v1 and one of the two has a long weapon, the dodging mechanic for the assassin helps to combat attacks. Plus 3v1 is what the revenge mechanic is for, although if 3 people attack me at once I run or you probably get stun locked. Personally I never gang up on people, if there is a 1v1 fight I let them finish before i try to attack, I consider it dishonorable to finish off my allies opponent when my ally still lives.

[Chris_Oblivion]

Strongly disagree with you. If you are on a Point being attacked by 2-3 and can't run you can fight. Sure you won't always win, hell you will lose more than you win but you CAN win or at the very least TRY to hold them off until your team can arrive to help. Tapping L1 lets everyone know instantly you need help at X location or better yet play with people who use a mic. You can defend against 3 people attacking from all sides. When you successfully block you AUTO BLOCK all directions for half a second, It is a dire situation but dying fast usually means you are panicking and loosing focus. Stay locked on a target because it makes blocking those you are not locked on to a lot easier, wait for revenge as it will become your key to what happens next if your Fight or Flight and both are acceptable

I don't expect to always win, it should be true to life that if you are getting battered on the battlefield by more than one person, the odds are highly stacked against you. But it doesn't feel like you have an chance on determining the outcome whatsoever, and your opponents know that, and they are in a button bashing frenzy to get the kill first before their teammate. What you are doing with the controller isn't happening on screen, because before any animation is completed from the controller command -- a strike stops that. It isn't a fluid, determinable experience. It is clumsy-feeling, and cumbersome. Skill is not rewarded in that situation. Button bashing is, and it shows. Attempting to run in that situation is a death sentence, I learnt that in the alpha. It was one of the first things I attempted to see if there was any change, as well as the dodging, and rolling. I also tried extreme defense -- attempted blocking from all angles. Stamina management. Parrying, guard breaking, throwing, attempted stun, attacking are all pointless, as you will not finish the animation the majority of the time as you will be hit. I also disagree that dying fast means panic and losing focus. It's because you're getting your head kicked in from all angles while being in quicksand.

[Butonfly]

Strongly disagree with you. If you are on a Point being attacked by 2-3 an can't run you can fight. Sure you won't always win, hell you will lose more than you win but you CAN win or at the very least TRY to hold them off until your team can arrive to help. Tapping L1 lets everyone know instantly you need help at X location or better yet play with people who use a mic. You can defend against 3 people attacking from all sides. When you successfully block you AUTO BLOCK all directions for half a second, It is a dire situation but dying fast usually means you are panicking and loosing focus. Stay locked on a target because it makes blocking those you are not locked on to a lot easier, wait for revenge as it will become your key to what happens next if your Fight or Flight and both are acceptable

Exactly.

So let's say you're backed into a corner and three guys on you, no way out. This happens, big whoop. It's part of the game. But you're not without options, and in fact your best option is very obvious.

OP, you say you play the objective so let's review this scenario. Let's say you've pushed far and you're now 1v3. You were 1v1, but 1 enemy was killed and respawned coming to +1, and another enemy foolishly peeled off a captured or contested mid to come help get you off far as quickly as possible. You've now generated a 3v1 at mid, giving your allies ample time to clean out the soldiers and kill the remaining enemy player. If you can hold 3 through a series of blocks and vengeance for twenty seconds, you've made a *huge* contribution to your team. You've not only contested far, you've allowed home and mid to be capped. Finally if your team kills the remaining enemy at mid the bodies on the field at 1 for 1, meaning it's a net win, or possible turn in point tick. And all you had to do was catch a few blocks while being prepared to counter any guard breaks. You don't even need to swing your weapon.

Definitely a L2P issue. Obviously I did read everything you'd said. I just went a little bit further and elaborated on the broader picture which you seem to want to ignore.

[Zemus-]

I don't expect to always win, it should be true to life that if you are getting battered on the battlefield by more than one person, the odds are highly stacked against you. But it doesn't feel like you have an chance on determining the outcome whatsoever, and your opponents know that, and they are in a button bashing frenzy to get the kill first before their teammate. What you are doing with the controller isn't happening on screen, because before any animation is completed from the controller command -- a strike stops that. It isn't a fluid, determinable experience. It is clumsy-feeling, and cumbersome. Skill is not rewarded in that situation. Button bashing is, and it shows. Attempting to run in that situation is a death sentence, I learnt that in the alpha. It was one of the first things I attempted to see if there was any change, as well as the dodging, and rolling. I also tried extreme defense -- attempted blocking from all angles. Stamina management. Parrying, guard breaking, throwing, attempted stun, attacking are all pointless, as you will not finish the animation the majority of the time as you will be hit. I also disagree that dying fast means panic and losing focus. It's because you're getting your head kicked in from all angles while being in quicksand.

And I am here to tell you that you are completely wrong. If all those 3 people are doing is button mashing then you should be blocking 80% of those hits and generating Revenge multiple times. Its not uncommon for me to pop Revenge 3 times in a 3v1 while I stop their team from generating pts for 30sec to a minute while my team capped the rest of the map in that time making my 3 attackers look like total newbs. It is skill dependent and you refuse to listen

Playtime does not = Skill, If you refuse to learn to what you are doing wrong I can't help you

[Chris_Oblivion]

This game would be unbalanced if you could 2v1 super easy. If you want to be a point guard then you NEED to play Viking Warlord with good Revenge generation from Blocks. With this character it is possible to hold off two people (and if you're good kill them) until a teammate shows up to help. and is stress the HOLD OFF part because you are not supposed to be able to 2v1 in this game. The Warlord also has an ability to self revive. So you can take a death and if they don't execute revive yourself and go again with full health.

But I don't want it to be super easy, as I mentioned in the first post. I just don't want it to be impossible, and not just possible with certain characters, otherwise that would be unbalanced. I think a lot is getting lost in translation in my posts. Maybe I should be more exclusive with my wording and explanation, as it seems I'm not coming off as concise as I want to be. I just don't want it to be down to a fluke surviving an onslaught against the odds, but in rare instances to feel like you are on complete control, and that translates on screen not only to yourself, but to your opponents too -- that they know they are up against a skilled, experienced opponent, and that acknowledgement influences how they come up against that player again in a similar scenario, where they would make it feel like a fight, where it was methodical, deliberate, and intense. Even if you lose, you managed to still do some damage, or even take one or even two with you, before the third or fourth finish you off if they are present. I also don't want to have to rely on any revenge power meter or perks to get me out of jail. It doesn't feel as earned as battling it out with experience and skill. I get more satisfaction out of a tough hard fight, with no super moves, etc. The close fights with a skilled opponent are always the best, and usually are followed up with a "Good fight!" message from your opponent even if he loses, and I do the same back, even in a loss. The hardest fought fights are always the most memorable. You never remember the easy kills. I think if there were a tweaking to give the opportunity for skill to shine in that instance, then the game would have more memorable moments, a higher skill ceiling, and when it does happen and you manage to pull it off in a rare instance -- it will be more rewarding

[Chris_Oblivion]

And I am here to tell you that you are completely wrong. If all those 3 people are doing is button mashing then you should be blocking 80% of those hits and generating Revenge multiple times. Its not uncommon for me to pop Revenge 3 times in a 3v1 while I stop their team from generating pts for 30sec to a minute while my team capped the rest of the map in that time making my 3 attackers look like total newbs. It is skill dependent and you refuse to listen

Playtime does not = Skill, If you refuse to learn to what you are doing wrong I can't help you

But I am not completely wrong. If you're getting attacked by multiple enemies at the same time, even if you do block a hit, you're still open for another, and the getting hit animation -- as you would expect -- leaves you open to multiple hits in a short space of time, resoundingly resulting in death. That is a fact. Don't tell me you're going to sit there and block 80% of hits from multiple attackers at the same time from different directions like you are Luke Skywalker. In all of the hours playing, I've never seen that happen, ever. Revenge perk isn't skill either, and I'm not talking about revenge mode at all, which I addressed in my second post in here. I'm talking about the actual fighting moves that are available to everyone 100% of the time, defending, and skill application. Not at all factoring in the revenge mode. Of course playtime doesn't equal skill, each person has their own capacity for skill, and in-game knowledge, observing, retaining information and learning from it, regardless of experience. The sad thing is you think I am refusing to learn, think that I am wrong, and that I need your help? I don't need your condescension either.

[Chris_Oblivion]

Exactly.

So let's say you're backed into a corner and three guys on you, no way out. This happens, big whoop. It's part of the game. But you're not without options, and in fact your best option is very obvious.

OP, you say you play the objective so let's review this scenario. Let's say you've pushed far and you're now 1v3. You were 1v1, but 1 enemy was killed and respawned coming to +1, and another enemy foolishly peeled off a captured or contested mid to come help get you off far as quickly as possible. You've now generated a 3v1 at mid, giving your allies ample time to clean out the soldiers and kill the remaining enemy player. If you can hold 3 through a series of blocks and vengeance for twenty seconds, you've made a *huge* contribution to your team. You've not only contested far, you've allowed home and mid to be capped. Finally if your team kills the remaining enemy at mid the bodies on the field at 1 for 1, meaning it's a net win, or possible turn in point tick. And all you had to do was catch a few blocks while being prepared to counter any guard breaks. You don't even need to swing your weapon.

Definitely a L2P issue. Obviously I did read everything you'd said. I just went a little bit further and elaborated on the broader picture which you seem to want to ignore.

Yes big whoop, you didn't understand any of my posts in here. Because if you had, you'd see that I have acknowledged that is part of the game -- a part that I am not against. It happens. As it should. I've already said it is a viable tactic. This is not my argument. No one is impervious to being "ganked". That is the outcome. Your scenario is one of a seemingly endless tangent of events that can happen in this game. But it is a dream. The reality is much different. Again, I am not talking about examples where you can escape, or if you can plan ahead. I'm talking about when you get jumped, and its on. Hits are raining down on your from multiple directions at the same time. I've already mentioned I have already tried the only blocking attempt. Several times, even without meaning to. But it won't get you anywhere. You'll get shanked, which is inevitable. There is no feeling of control, or any deliberation in that moment. Against multiple characters, you have the finesse of a slug in a coma. It just feels pointless. Better off to just put the controller down, get it over with quickly, and then you respawn quicker. There is no skill reward in that scenario. So you can take your L2P along with your L2R, and again ignore my posts and dream up more scenarios that happen in your head, but do not pertain to anything I am talking about. Have a nice day

[xSol Swifty 02]

But I am not completely wrong. If you're getting attacked by multiple enemies at the same time, even if you do block a hit, you're still open for another, and the getting hit animation -- as you would expect -- leaves you open to multiple hits in a short space of time, resoundingly resulting in death. That is a fact. Don't tell me you're going to sit there and block 80% of hits from multiple attackers at the same time from different directions like you are Luke Skywalker. In all of the hours playing, I've never seen that happen, ever. Revenge perk isn't skill either, and I'm not talking about revenge mode at all, which I addressed in my second post in here. I'm talking about the actual fighting moves that are available to everyone 100% of the time, defending, and skill application. Not at all factoring in the revenge mode. Of course playtime doesn't equal skill, each person has their own capacity for skill, and in-game knowledge, observing, retaining information and learning from it, regardless of experience. The sad thing is you think I am refusing to learn, think that I am wrong, and that I need your help? I don't need your condescension either.

there is a mechanic in the game where if you are outnumbered and block an attack you briefly auto-block every direction. I don't know how the game keeps track of if you are outnumbered. I don't know if the auto-block triggers off any block or if it is only from blocking an attack from someone you are/aren't locked onto. But it is absolutely a mechanic that allows you to block multiple attackers.

So yes I don't think you have adequate in game knowledge and yes I do think you are refusing to learn and yes I KNOW that you're wrong.

[Butonfly]

But I am not completely wrong. If you're getting attacked by multiple enemies at the same time, even if you do block a hit, you're still open for another, and the getting hit animation -- as you would expect -- leaves you open to multiple hits in a short space of time, resoundingly resulting in death. That is a fact. Don't tell me you're going to sit there and block 80% of hits from multiple attackers at the same time from different directions like you are Luke Skywalker. In all of the hours playing, I've never seen that happen, ever. Revenge perk isn't skill either, and I'm not talking about revenge mode at all, which I addressed in my second post in here. I'm talking about the actual fighting moves that are available to everyone 100% of the time, defending, and skill application. Not at all factoring in the revenge mode. Of course playtime doesn't equal skill, each person has their own capacity for skill, and in-game knowledge, observing, retaining information and learning from it, regardless of experience. The sad thing is you think I am refusing to learn, think that I am wrong, and that I need your help? I don't need your condescension either.

You will never be happy with this game because you're complaining about core mechanics (Vengeance, feats). So while people can easily undermine the merits of your claims, there's no way to dissuade you of your own feelings. Which is about what your entire argument boils down to (I don't like this, it doesn't suit my personal taste). This makes your options pretty simple at this point.

1) Move on. Put the game down. Go play something else like Chivelry which you've already expressed you love and enjoy more than this game.
2) Tell the community what you want from this thread. If it's possible to provide maybe you'll get it. If it's not, at least we'll all know what it is you want and whether or not it can be provided.