How do you counter the Warlord headbutt? | Forums

[Z0rgo]

it does indeed look as if he is dodging backwards and it just increases the leap of the headbutt for some reason. Not saying there isnt counter-play but the spammability definately needs to go down with stamina costs. He headbutts so many times in succession and his stamina is still pretty healthy

[Yianyan]

When dodging backwards on attacks that are vertical, follow throughs, or lunging or whatever you want to call attacks that move forward as they go, timing is important. Dodge at the wrong time and they will track to you, dodge at the right time and even if they would normally go a mile to chase you down they will stop short of you. Sideways is a bit more lenient but, again, timing is everything. Warlord or Conqueror have similar mechanics here on their headbutt/shield bash into free attacks and they both have the same answer, an interrupting faster attack or dodging sideways.

Assassins feel a lot better at dodging but any class, if timed appropriately, can dodge around a kick/charge/headbutt/shield bash(/charge) just the same.

[Derity]

Me and a friend tested this in a custom match with Warlord vs Warden.

We tested this over and over in a match set up with No Damage and 10 minute timers on 99 rounds.
If you are face to face close up to the Warlord, unless you predict it and dash slightly before the Headbutt, it always lands.
From a short distance, same - unless you predict it and dash slightly before the Headbutt it always lands.
From a medium distance, it can be dashed if you are extremely fast at reacting to it.

A light attack will hit and interrupt the Headbutt. It requires the same timings as above.

Dodging sideways / backwards has pretty much identical results. Dashing backwards seems to be slightly easier to perform from a medium distance, but reaction time still needs to be extremely fast.


My Thoughts after this test:
I think the Headbutt is definitely overpowered in it's current state, it's too fast to be avoided most of the time, especially in an actual match where players do a variety of attacks and have different timings to each other. To effectively avoid the Headbutt, you have to predict and dash (or light attack) right before it comes out, otherwise, for the most part, it will hit.

If the Headbutt was just a Headbutt it would be fine. but it has a free hit attached to it and therefore in my opinion it should not be this easy to land.

My suggestion would be to either:

A. Significantly increase the stamina cost, so it is still a free hit, but it costs a lot of stamina to use. (Impossible to spam)
B. Reduce the speed.

[metalkinglord15]

U can counter his head butt, I've done it with my orochi top light attack

[TCTF_SWAT]

There was alot of backdashing in that video. He got you mainly because he knew he coul get away with it. This is where figuring out how the move works helps things. I treat the headbutt like a shield bash or kick. Dodge sideways and punish.

Though I am kinda lost why the heabutt doesn't cost much stamina. I can't recall if a conqueror's shield bash costs as much.

[Sken_Glyph_]

Me and a friend tested this in a custom match with Warlord vs Warden.

We tested this over and over in a match set up with No Damage and 10 minute timers on 99 rounds.
If you are face to face close up to the Warlord, unless you predict it and dash slightly before the Headbutt, it always lands.
From a short distance, same - unless you predict it and dash slightly before the Headbutt it always lands.
From a medium distance, it can be dashed if you are extremely fast at reacting to it.

A light attack will hit and interrupt the Headbutt. It requires the same timings as above.

Dodging sideways / backwards has pretty much identical results. Dashing backwards seems to be slightly easier to perform from a medium distance, but reaction time still needs to be extremely fast.


My Thoughts after this test:
I think the Headbutt is definitely overpowered in it's current state, it's too fast to be avoided most of the time, especially in an actual match where players do a variety of attacks and have different timings to each other. To effectively avoid the Headbutt, you have to predict and dash (or light attack) right before it comes out, otherwise, for the most part, it will hit.

If the Headbutt was just a Headbutt it would be fine. but it has a free hit attached to it and therefore in my opinion it should not be this easy to land.

My suggestion would be to either:

A. Significantly increase the stamina cost, so it is still a free hit, but it costs a lot of stamina to use. (Impossible to spam)
B. Reduce the speed.

I think we're all pretty much in agreement that the Stamina cost needs to be drastically increased (1/4 bar or more imo), but in the referenced video it is certainly easy to predict beforehand. The stab does very little damage, so you're looking at this:

Headbutt -> Stab, Headbutt -> Stab, Defender dodges headbutt and punishes.

The problem that is left is when he's not spamming solely that combo. Headbutt -> Stab x2, Guard Break -> Strike, repeat and mix. This of course would be completely fixed by a high stamina cost to Headbutt; 1/8th the Stamina bar or less is absurdly cheap (literally and figuratively).

[Aarpian2]

Looking at your video, you seem to be trying to block (maybe even get off an attack) rather than dodging right or dodging back. The move doesn't cover that much space, and there should be enough time between attacks for you to recover and get off a dodge. If you dodge one or two, Warlord will be open for big damage and I guarantee they will think twice about trying it again. You can also drop your block stance and run back a few steps to create some space.

When you see people using this as a first attack, this is where character / matchup knowledge comes into play. If you're fighting Warlord or Conq, you'll need to remember that those attacks are available to them and you want to switch up your strategy. Play a little further away, play a bit more defensive, open them up with a guard break and take the offensive first. If nothing else, just sit wait and feel your opponent out. You'll always be able to tell within the first few attacks if your opponent will go crazy with a headbutt, or fight a much slower fight.

The headbutt will still hit you if you try to dodge backwards unless you're already at max range. It's also incredibly fast, and I'm pretty sure you can't punish it guaranteed if you dodge it unless you have a dodge attack. He can also feint the headbutt after he travels into a guard break, punishing you 100% if you dodge.

[Bobola]

Since we got the video in this thread, let's look at it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_LtOaiuD6U

At around 1:09 we can clearly see headbutt interupted by the Conqueror light attack. The Conqueror did nothing defensively except blocking and backdashing which in this case is useless. I don't feel that this is a legitimate case for grivances towards developers, more like inexperience on part of the Conqueror. Although I totally agree that this player playing Warlord is pathetic and he give all Warlords a bad name. My experience during last beta tests is that Conqueror is one of the most popular characters out there and Warlord is one of the least popular. Few people even told me that they find playing Conqueror easier then Warlord. Can't wait for beta test statistics to verify this.