[Suggestion] Give attackers 5 second spawn protection to counter spawncampers/peekers | Forums

[Eddlicious.]

This is the simplest, most straightforward and least changing idea I could think of to stop people from being killed at their spawn, or the moment they take two steps out of their spawns (you can shoot at spawncampers/peekers, but they always have the peeker's advantage).

Give. Attackers. Spawn protection. For a few seconds. Just a few seconds, then it's back to normal.

It's that simple. If attackers have spawn protection for around 5 seconds, it stops attackers from being bottlenecked when they leave their spawn or being outright killed inside of their spawn.


NOTE: If attacker(s) decides to linger around and sit in their spawn, then it's their own ****ing fault if they die, since spawn protection would run out.

[HEL-Alfa]

I would say no, because there is 100% no reason for it, Maybe in casual but there is no need for it in ranked. Any decent player should be able to just shoot back and win the fight every time as a attacker. Also, 5 seconds is WAY to long! If you were to add this I would say 1 or 2 seconds should be more then enough. In 5 seconds you can already have an angle on many maps, if you have protection and the defender doesn't it isn't a fair fight.

There is nothing wrong with spawn peeking, you are about to besiege a fortified building, you should expect people to shoot at you when you approach. But you should always win that fight again.

My reason why I don't want this:
-Stops me from getting free kills as an attacker whenever some idiot tries this. I play with diamonds on PS4 and PC and really, nobody tries this. But every once in a while you will have some fresh diamond who thinks this strat works, and that's a free kill
-5 seconds is wayyy to long, on many maps the attackers can already have an angle on bomb sites/ windows and doors on bomb sites. They shouldn't have protection when they can hurt the enemy (ofcourse the spawn protection should disappear whenever the attackers shoots but it will still give the attacker an advantage).
-Is an unnecesary addition to the game. Spawnrushing is easily countered by: A. picking another spawn if you don't wish to challenge the rusher, B: Shooting back. Spawnpeeking is a strategy which defenders should always lose, but it is neccesary to have so that attackers don't feel like the outside is their safe space,

Maybe in casual they could add a 1-2 second timer so you can get your bearings of where you spawn, but not in ranked please.

[d7331.]

I would say no, because there is 100% no reason for it, Maybe in casual but there is no need for it in ranked. Any decent player should be able to just shoot back and win the fight every time as a attacker. Also, 5 seconds is WAY to long! If you were to add this I would say 1 or 2 seconds should be more then enough. In 5 seconds you can already have an angle on many maps, if you have protection and the defender doesn't it isn't a fair fight.

There is nothing wrong with spawn peeking, you are about to besiege a fortified building, you should expect people to shoot at you when you approach. But you should always win that fight again.

My reason why I don't want this:
-Stops me from getting free kills as an attacker whenever some idiot tries this. I play with diamonds on PS4 and PC and really, nobody tries this. But every once in a while you will have some fresh diamond who thinks this strat works, and that's a free kill
-5 seconds is wayyy to long, on many maps the attackers can already have an angle on bomb sites/ windows and doors on bomb sites. They shouldn't have protection when they can hurt the enemy (ofcourse the spawn protection should disappear whenever the attackers shoots but it will still give the attacker an advantage).
-Is an unnecesary addition to the game. Spawnrushing is easily countered by: A. picking another spawn if you don't wish to challenge the rusher, B: Shooting back. Spawnpeeking is a strategy which defenders should always lose, but it is neccesary to have so that attackers don't feel like the outside is their safe space,

Maybe in casual they could add a 1-2 second timer so you can get your bearings of where you spawn, but not in ranked please.

The problem with the implementation of a spawnprotection in casual is, that the transition to ranked will be even more problematic.
The transition should be as smooth as possible, so casual needs to stay as true to the ranked game as possible.
There is already a timer difference with which people seem to have a huge problem with.
I don't know, this sounds like a double edged sword to me.

[Eddlicious.]

I would say no, because there is 100% no reason for it, Maybe in casual but there is no need for it in ranked. Any decent player should be able to just shoot back and win the fight every time as a attacker. Also, 5 seconds is WAY to long! If you were to add this I would say 1 or 2 seconds should be more then enough. In 5 seconds you can already have an angle on many maps, if you have protection and the defender doesn't it isn't a fair fight.

There is nothing wrong with spawn peeking, you are about to besiege a fortified building, you should expect people to shoot at you when you approach. But you should always win that fight again.

My reason why I don't want this:
-Stops me from getting free kills as an attacker whenever some idiot tries this. I play with diamonds on PS4 and PC and really, nobody tries this. But every once in a while you will have some fresh diamond who thinks this strat works, and that's a free kill
-5 seconds is wayyy to long, on many maps the attackers can already have an angle on bomb sites/ windows and doors on bomb sites. They shouldn't have protection when they can hurt the enemy (ofcourse the spawn protection should disappear whenever the attackers shoots but it will still give the attacker an advantage).
-Is an unnecesary addition to the game. Spawnrushing is easily countered by: A. picking another spawn if you don't wish to challenge the rusher, B: Shooting back. Spawnpeeking is a strategy which defenders should always lose, but it is neccesary to have so that attackers don't feel like the outside is their safe space,

Maybe in casual they could add a 1-2 second timer so you can get your bearings of where you spawn, but not in ranked please.

Try sprinting from any spawn and turn a timer on. Five seconds is just enough for an attacker on most maps to barely leave their spawn and reach cover where they're not being bottlenecked (because as of now, most spawn-exits are massive bottlenecks from which defenders can easily kill the attackers from).

"Nobody tries to camp spawns" - That's very much false: You always have people spawncamping/peeking with people ranking from Gold to Diamond in a match.

"Stops me from getting free kills as an attacker" - How is that a problem, if according to you "nobody ever tries to spawnpeek"?

"There is nothing wrong with spawn peeking" - There is everything wrong with spawnpeeking. Imagine if Counter-Terrorists on CS:GO could see the exit to the Terrorist spawn on the map Inferno, the moment both sides spawn in. It'd be unfair to the extreme, which it definitely is on RS: Siege.

"Spawnrushing is easily countered by A and B" - A option: Can't do that in Casual, not everyone wants to play ranked because they play the game casually. B option: Not everyone is a Diamond/Platinum that knows positions of each window through memory without having to see them visually, so that they can prefire the windows from bottleneck spawns. Just because the minority of the community can deal with spawncamping because they're good enough, doesn't mean the majority who plays the game casually (if you play casually, you tend to play for fun and don't aim to become a professional; nothing fun about being killed 5 seconds in to the match because you can't leave your spawn) shouldn't have to suffer through being unable to play the game, because they get spawncamped.

"But it is neccesary to have so that attackers don't feel like the outside is their safe space" - It would not be a safe space. Once the hypothetical spawn protection wears off, you can kill attackers that are outside all you want by jumping out of windows, through them etc. etc.

"You are about to besiege a fortified building, you should expect people to shoot at you when you approach" - Now that logic doesn't apply here, since the besieged, fortified building, is under a police siege. Not a military siege. It is a hastefully scrambled together fortified position to block attackers' line of sight, so that they cannot get shot by police snipers and so that the attackers would not have eyes on what is going on inside. NOT something of a military Forward Operating Base with MG's facing to the outside of the position ready to kill anything approaching it.

[Eddlicious.]

The problem with the implementation of a spawnprotection in casual is, that the transition to ranked will be even more problematic.
The transition should be as smooth as possible, so casual needs to stay as true to the ranked game as possible.
There is already a timer difference with which people seem to have a huge problem with.
I don't know, this sounds like a double edged sword to me.

Imo spawn protection should exist both on ranked and casual. Only difference between the two should be that one is competitive and other is casual (e.g. One ranks you on a leaderboard and other doesn't). There is nothing competitive about camping spawns, it's just plain sleazy and cheap. Something that should never exist on a primarily competitive FPS multiplayer game.

[d7331.]

Imo spawn protection should exist both on ranked and casual. Only difference between the two should be that one is competitive and other is casual (e.g. One ranks you on a leaderboard and other doesn't). There is nothing competitive about camping spawns, it's just plain sleazy and cheap. Something that should never exist on a primarily competitive FPS multiplayer game.

Agree to disagree. I think it's a viable option and as Alfa said, it's pratically a freekill for the attacker.
If you die to spawn peeks constantly then you need to change something about your playstyle.

[dude02468]

I think it'd be a good idea. It's this kind of change that people can't whine about without sounding stupid. Does it do anything? Who knows. Would it have any real affect, besides deterring people from going outside within the allotted time? No! Therefore, it pleases the whiners without affecting our game

[Copperneck]

Spawn peeking works because a defender is holding a position. He knows there are limited ways to enter a map, so he's defending it. If he were in the objective room peeking a door or window, would that be any different? He knows that's probably where attackers are going to enter. He SHOULD be ready. At the same time, attackers should know to be ready at every moment, too. "Hmmm. I'm about to enter the objective room, I'll just casually stroll in here." NO

That's not the right attitude. Treat every spawn peek as a lesson. You should learn, what windows were used to kill you. What spawn you died at, etc. If you're not learning, then you probably aren't ready.

As far as new casual players, when I play with them I try to tell them as much as possible to watch windows, etc. The ones that don't listen die. Their fault. Not mine.

[Eddlicious.]

Agree to disagree. I think it's a viable option and as Alfa said, it's pratically a freekill for the attacker.
If you die to spawn peeks constantly then you need to change something about your playstyle.

With how most spawns are laid out (two exits, both with that defenders have the eyes on before attackers can see the windows defenders are peeking from + peeker's advantage), there's not much you can do. Like I said already, minority of the playerbase can deal with this because they are that top 1000 that play the game super-seriously and probably aim to go pro in the tournaments held for teh game. Majority, that plays casually, can't. Because they play casually and aren't aiming to become to best of the best in the game.

Spawn peeking works because a defender is holding a position. He knows there are limited ways to enter a map, so he's defending it. If he were in the objective room peeking a door or window, would that be any different? He knows that's probably where attackers are going to enter. He SHOULD be ready. At the same time, attackers should know to be ready at every moment, too. "Hmmm. I'm about to enter the objective room, I'll just casually stroll in here." NO

That's not the right attitude. Treat every spawn peek as a lesson. You should learn, what windows were used to kill you. What spawn you died at, etc. If you're not learning, then you probably aren't ready.

As far as new casual players, when I play with them I try to tell them as much as possible to watch windows, etc. The ones that don't listen die. Their fault. Not mine.

Of course you learn from being spawnkilled. That doesn't stop the spawnkilling, however. Majority of spawns are laid out as follow: Two exits, no more than 15 meters apart from each other with bottleneck-esque ways out; most notably the docks on "House" and "Kafe" where you go up a set of stairs to reach the main street. Hereford Base is another example, where two of the spawns are laid out as follows: Massive open field with a big building in between you and the objective building, but in order to leave the spawn you must take one of two routes which are effectively bottleneck. One is the parking lot, which leads through slim alleyways you get gunned down at; other is the football field which takes you through a small path which has trees blocking your visibility of the windows, which then again allow the defenders to see your legs through their windows before you can return fire.

And there is a very significant difference between spawnkilling and guarding a way to the objective that's inside the building: You don't die within the first five seconds of the match due to the ******** that is spawnkilling, but rather your own mistakes that you've made with your approach whilst inside the building. There are no mistakes made when you approach the building from your spawn, because of how in-favor the spawns are for defenders to just kill you from your spawn or the moment you step outside of your spawn - majority of exits which are bottlenecks, which I can't emphasize on enough.


And the another big fact is, not everyone is a damn Diamond or Platinum IV who plays the game to go pro or to become the best of the best. Majority of players play casually and do not want to learn how to pre-fire every single window from an attacker spawn on each map, because they are playing for fun. There is absolutely nothing fun about being killed from your spawn. Best example of this I can give of by creating a spawnkilling situation in another game, such as CS:GO:

- Map is Inferno
- CT and T sides spawn in
- CT can see the T spawn exit the moment they spawn in
- T side gets annihilated the moment they leave their spawn

Can you through this example see the unfairness and ******** that is spawnkilling? Can you? Spawnkilling should not exist on a primarily competitive game EVER, because of how cheap and unfair it is.

Biggest issue there is though, is how to make people who actively do this to not come together and actively fight against it. They know it's unfair, but they do it exactly because of that. Because it is unfair. Why do I think they do it because it is unfair? Because unfair is EASY. Spawnkilling is super, super easy for the reasons I've said many times over on this thread and many other threads.

[d7331.]

With how most spawns are laid out (two exits, both with that defenders have the eyes on before attackers can see the windows defenders are peeking from + peeker's advantage), there's not much you can do. Like I said already, minority of the playerbase can deal with this because they are that top 1000 that play the game super-seriously and probably aim to go pro in the tournaments held for teh game. Majority, that plays casually, can't. Because they play casually and aren't aiming to become to best of the best in the game.



Of course you learn from being spawnkilled. That doesn't stop the spawnkilling, however. Majority of spawns are laid out as follow: Two exits, no more than 15 meters apart from each other with bottleneck-esque ways out; most notably the docks on "House" and "Kafe" where you go up a set of stairs to reach the main street. Hereford Base is another example, where two of the spawns are laid out as follows: Massive open field with a big building in between you and the objective building, but in order to leave the spawn you must take one of two routes which are effectively bottleneck. One is the parking lot, which leads through slim alleyways you get gunned down at; other is the football field which takes you through a small path which has trees blocking your visibility of the windows, which then again allow the defenders to see your legs through their windows before you can return fire.

And there is a very significant difference between spawnkilling and guarding a way to the objective that's inside the building: You don't die within the first five seconds of the match due to the ******** that is spawnkilling, but rather your own mistakes that you've made with your approach whilst inside the building. There are no mistakes made when you approach the building from your spawn, because of how in-favor the spawns are for defenders to just kill you from your spawn or the moment you step outside of your spawn - majority of exits which are bottlenecks, which I can't emphasize on enough.


And the another big fact is, not everyone is a damn Diamond or Platinum IV who plays the game to go pro or to become the best of the best. Majority of players play casually and do not want to learn how to pre-fire every single window from an attacker spawn on each map, because they are playing for fun. There is absolutely nothing fun about being killed from your spawn. Best example of this I can give of by creating a spawnkilling situation in another game, such as CS:GO:

- Map is Inferno
- CT and T sides spawn in
- CT can see the T spawn exit the moment they spawn in
- T side gets annihilated the moment they leave their spawn

Can you through this example see the unfairness and ******** that is spawnkilling? Can you? Spawnkilling should not exist on a primarily competitive game EVER, because of how cheap and unfair it is.

Biggest issue there is though, is how to make people who actively do this to not come together and actively fight against it. They know it's unfair, but they do it exactly because of that. Because it is unfair. Why do I think they do it because it is unfair? Because unfair is EASY. Spawnkilling is super, super easy for the reasons I've said many times over on this thread and many other threads.

Has nothing to do with being pro or not.
This is supposed to be a tactical shooter where you need to communicate and adapt on the fly. It's totally different from CS
Which leads me to the next point, have been playing CS from 1.3 (except CSGO, Just don't like it) does mid doors Dust2 ring a Bell? Almost indentical to spawnpeeking in Siege
Nobody complains there
Or prodigy, dust so many other maps from CS and teams simply outsmart their opponents and counter that.
You are Put into a hostile enviroment. The builing has been taken over by terrorists. You should at any given time expect counterattacks.
This game is much more fun with a squad of 5 and pay attention to your surroundings
Trust me once you figure out the common spamspots, spawnpeeking spots it's a piece of cake.
PS: the problem with spawn peeks could háve been solved long time ago, Just add selectable spawn locations in casual, the rest is map knowledge for the most part