1. #1

    For Honor - Specify your (Dis-)Honor

    Hi guys!

    Just remembered a fight from a previous alpha and a 'discussion' I had in that one.
    Now I am curious how you define "honorable" or "dishonorable" acts in matches and different gamemodes.
    Please specify each of them for Duell, Brawl, Dominion, Elimination and Skirmish. If you are still unsure of one of these thoughts you can mark it with () to show thats your current thought but not totally sure yet.

    I didnt expect so many (detailled) answers, so I thought I'd 'provide' a way to keep your answer short.
    Feel free to answer in your own words, I appreciate every comment on this topic!

    Which environmental exploits do you consider honorable?
    A: Everything is honorable, death is death.
    B: Fire or water fountains (damaging effects) are honorable; instant kill effects aint.

    X: Exploiting environmental effects is always (dis-)honorable, related to choise of A/B.
    Y: Exploiting environmental effects is only honorable if used by passive pushes, like the forced backpushes from heavy hits. The explicit use of guardbreaks to throw an enemy into them is cheap and thus unhonorable.

    P: If choosen Y, its also still honorable if forcefully pushed into damaging effects (B) with pushing attacks like shield-/shoulderbashs or the likes as these are no grabs.
    Q: If choosen Y, its also still honorable if forcefully pushed into any environmental effects, including spikes and ledges, using pushing attacks like shield-/shoulderbashes.

    M: Outnumbering an enemy is honorable and legit, in any case and situation (including interfering in execution animations).
    N: Outnumbering an enemy is unhonorable and thus not legit. Interfering in execution animations (for example in Brawl) is also unhonorable.
    O: Outnumbering an enemy is unhonorable and thus not legit. Interfering in execution animations meanwhile is fair and legit.

    Following are my opinions:
    Duell: B-Y |
    I want a duell based on combat skills and only acknowledge death by ledges or any other map effects if driven into them by my own faulty movement and positioning.
    Brawl: B-Y-(P)-N |
    I like Brawls as duells with the chance of facing two enemys in a row. Thats not how they are meant, but I like to use them that way.
    Dominion: A-X-M |
    Its dominion. Neither I nor my team have time to watch you finish 1v1's. Hurry or get overwhelmed.
    Elimination: (A)-X-M |
    Unlike Brawl, Elimination is a tactical 4v4 team deathmatch. I dont like the huge impact feats have, but beside that I support everything.
    Skirmish: A-X-M |
    Skirmish is the stupid little brother of Dominion. I dont like it and thus accept everything that happens in this gamemode.

    So, how are your thoughts about this?
    Feel free to leave an as detaillled answer as you like, or just keep it short with the lettercode. I'm curious!

    I forgott to mention. Option 'Y' includes throwing people off from ledges by positioning them with their back towards a ledge or whatever and countering their guardbreak. So when choosing Y it may be unhonorable to throw people with guardbreaks off a cliff, but it would STILL be honorable to throw them off a cliff by countering their guardbreak intentionally and thus forcing them backwards off a ledge or whatever.

    Judging by some comments I think I should clarify one thing:
    Dont misunderstand me; considering something as unhonorable doesnt mean I complain or dont acknowledge my lose. This is purely for the sake of which way of fighting you usually 'accept' and which you wouldnt use as long as your opponent doesnt do so.
    Calling specific actions "unhonorable" thus doesnt mean your opponent is cheap or a bad player, it will only mark them as "preferably not rely'd on" in your opinion, saying you'll usually only do so if your enemy does. Neither you nor anyone else trying to play "honorable" is thus in any way better, its just another way of playing this game and judging its opportunitys differently.
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  2. #2
    As long its within the game and not exploiting a perhaps design or programing flaw, everything go. Its not honorable seeing your comrade die in a one vs one if you could help and save him. If I finnished my opponent in the 2vs2 brawl befor my companion did, I did wait and see who would win :P. So for me it depends on the mode played.
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  3. #3
    TCTF_SWAT's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    UltraTech HQ
    Can you even fall of ledges that kill you in duels by yourself? If you can I've never seen it. I thought barriers protected you from killing yourself while in duels or brawls.

    But it would be pretty funny watching zerks, raiders and warden's and even orchis charge at you near a ledge dodge it and watch them fall. I'd get a kick out of that.
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  4. #4
    The way I personally see it from the footage I watched so far:

    Environmental kills are honorable except if you are spamming guardbreak, trying to throw someone off the ledge. Exquisite one-push environmental kills are honorable, though.

    Overwhelming an opponent is legit, you have Revenge at your disposal if you are capable of blocking attacks. It may, however, seem a bit annoying in Brawl, but it is a legit tactic, and you have Revenge, so you can deal with it.

    Not sure what interfering with execution animations are, so I can't give my opinion on that one.

    These apply to every gamemode.
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  5. #5
    Can you even fall of ledges that kill you in duels by yourself?
    You cant kill yourself, but you can be pushed by beeing hit from a heavy attack and thus stepping off a cliff. If, for example, the raider hits you with his unblockable attack your character will take a few steps back from taking heavy damage. During these automatic steps from beeing heavily injured you can move over the edge of a cliff or whatever and thus die. It also works with wallspikes or fire, as if you where thrown in but just walked into it by yourself in cause of taking heavy damage.

    Not sure what interfering with execution animations are, so I can't give my opinion on that one.
    It means that, for example in brawl, you kill your opponent and take of his last piece of health with a heavy attack, granting you a chance to perform an execution to prevent enemys ressurection and also healing yourself for a bit. During this animation you cant defend yourself and you also cant cancel it - you can only ignore the opportunity to do it entirely and thus not regain health and prevent enemy ressurection. In Brawl some players play "honorable" by not interfering until you kill your opponent, but they instantly step in if you start an execution, entering the killing animation.
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  6. #6
    I'd like to write this up freer than you expect, because I don't want to generalize such situations.
    In general, I see myself as an "honorable" player, e.g. someone who doesn't go for cheap shots or cheesy wins, but who outplays his opponent. While that is the case, I in no way need other players to play in any specific way, or share my opinion about this. BUT, I really liked the honorable brawl or elimination where your opponents go for fair 1on1, once in a while. I had some matches that went well over 10 rounds, where one team was winning constantly, while the other team was staying to learn, and because the fights where really awesome. This can be a game where you shout "Nice!" in front of your monitor while an enemy counters your every move and kicks your *** down the castle wall.

    Bottom line: I don't mind "dishonorable" (the quotes are there for a reason) players or play styles all too much, but I personally like to play a fair game, and I love it when I meet others of my kind. (I also love to kick that one cheesy Mofo down the cliff after he did some bad guard break failures. We're all just human, eh?)
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  7. #7
    Developers put certain mechanics in a game to be used, no matter what your opinion on the matter is. How can I fault someone for playing a game and utilizing mechanics in said game.

    I personally prefer the "honorable" style of play: waiting for the other 2 to duke it out in brawl or let the last person alive in dominion have a fighting chance by 1v1ing each person. I however do use the fall offs or spike walls to my advantage because they are just a part of the battle and strategic positioning. But in a 1v1 duel I don't mind if someone walks to a different area free of map hazards. I usually play this way until someone of the opposite team beings to play "dishonorably". If they want to 2v1 me on brawl, I'll do the same thing to them when I get the chance and so on.

    The problem though is that people like to complain when these things happen. I learn to adapt to whoever I'm playing against. If they play "dishonorably" or "honorably" I'll play the way they do. People tend to complain about viable things put in the game by the developer. EXAMPLE: in Call of Duty people like to complain about "hard scoping" or using a certain gun... The developers put it in the game so you are better off adapting to it then complaining (unless it's literally game-breaking). Another EXAMPLE just from this game alone: People looooved to complain that the Orochi was cheap and overpowered.. Instead of complaining, I learned how to fight against and counter the Orochi and began to love playing against them so I could best them. Even in this upcoming beta I hope to be double teamed more often so I can learn to be able to survive consistently in those situations.

    So honestly I just believe that if it is put into the game by the developers, it's apart of the challenge of a game. If you don't want to use an overpowered character or overpowered move/mechanic, more power to you, but you can't really get mad at someone for simply using a provided mechanic. It would be a huge difference if we were talking about someone glitching, but that's not the case.

    Anyways those are just my thoughts about this whole "honorable" and "dishonorable" thing.
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  8. #8
    LiveKiller7x's Avatar Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    I think everything is allowed (if it's not some kind of exploiting or else) and is honorable because it's about life and death, win or lose.
    When I was doing 2on2 tho I sometimes waited for the other 2 to finish their fight when I was already done. (But only because it's a Game, if this would happen in some way in real life I wouldnt wait a second and help my friend because here death is permanent :P)

    But in Game that also depends on the Situation, If I am on low health already because of my battle before I must admit I usually ganged up on the last enemy, of course I want to win ^^.
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  9. #9
    Layer_13's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Anything is fair game, in my book. If the mechanic is there (and advocated--like 2v1'ing in Brawl), then players should be allowed to do it without being ridiculed.

    The only thing I find dishonorable are players who constantly complain and especially those who can't back up their claims. I had one instance where a player kept complaining about me using Revenge and challenged me to a duel to try and prove I'm nothing without it. He never showed up and I made sure his clan/group knew about it.
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  10. #10
    I forget the term people are called for making their own rules and handicaps for an aspect of a game they don't like.

    Is it part of the game. Check.
    Is/are the opponent(s) cheating nope.
    Then i see nothing wrong with being tossed off a cliff, 4v1ed, guard broke 1000 times. Will i grow frustrated sometimes absolutely. And will i let my opponent fight my friend in a brawl cause I killed mine already sure will. Unless ofc they start out with a 2v1 then game on.

    But at the end of the day if they used some "cheesy" trick to beat you idk adapt and overcome. Or complain. Free world after all.
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