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  1. #21
    Cons72's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Art.Van.Delay Go to original post
    So you made up your own definition in your head, just to have a point, and when people call you out, you tell them to not argue about semantics, pretty please.

    Did I get this right now?

    Nope.

    I am not sure why you have such an issue with someone providing context as to what they are talking about when using certain vocabulary. I simply stated that in this context, I would say I would use a different word.

    If we explain what we mean by terms used in a context, then there is less confusion in the discussion and we don't have to spend time arguing about things we actually might agree on.
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  2. #22
    It is amazing how long is taking UBISOFT/MASSIVE to fix/arrange the PvE at DZ as CO-OP Mode.

    Even more incredibly is how long UBISOFT/MASSIVE is taking to create appropriate MP modes for this game.

    But it is much more amazing how dumb is the DZ as it is with only that Rogue System for PvP. It is completely boring and soooooo simple that it is completely out of place.

    At the end looks like the players are collecting and upgrading their character to get ready to deal, or to be, a Rogue agent and nothing more.

    I'm a bit
    apprehensive about Ghost Recon Wild Lands if UBISOFT/MASSIVE don't "fix" the PvE and PvP ASAP. Let's face it, if Wild Lands show itself as a bad game that need improvements we know that they will take a very long time to fix that.

    So at the end Massive Entertainment is an award winning game development studio, fully owned by Ubisoft Entertainment and located in Malmö, Sweden and nothing more!
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  3. #23
    Originally Posted by Art.Van.Delay Go to original post
    Skill

    noun
    1.
    the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/skill
    A racing drivers skill in in his hands, feet and seat of the pants feel for a car and grip. I would not call his car setup part of his skill as a driver on track. That is knowledge of physics. You're interpretation of knowledge in the context of the statement is wrong IMO. Skill is in movement, aiming, use of cover and the consumables available to a player. Build setup does not equate to PvP skill.

    This underlines the statement that, a simplified battle makes skill even more prominent. i.e put all the same drivers in the same car, or players with the same setup and the skill gap increases.
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  4. #24
    M0J033's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Silz616 Go to original post
    A racing drivers skill in in his hands, feet and seat of the pants feel for a car and grip. I would not call his car setup part of his skill as a driver on track. That is knowledge of physics. You're interpretation of knowledge in the context of the statement is wrong IMO. Skill is in movement, aiming, use of cover and the consumables available to a player. Build setup does not equate to PvP skill.

    This underlines the statement that, a simplified battle makes skill even more prominent. i.e put all the same drivers in the same car, or players with the same setup and the skill gap increases.
    But, in this game, gear optimization does play a significant factor and since, unlike a race car driver who has a pit crew to set up his car for him (which, btw, does require knowledge and skill, and is often the deciding factor in a race), then the knowledge of which attributes compliment each other and which one's don't, and the skill required to create a better build than your opponent are absolutely relevant in this discussion.

    It might be a different set of skills than those required to aim and shoot, but they are still skills nonetheless.

    If a player is adept at one set of skills but not the other, then that player will likely be at a significant disadvantage to one who excels at BOTH.
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  5. #25
    vvhorus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Art.Van.Delay Go to original post
    And it won't go away, unless PVE players realize, that they're crying for the wrong thing.
    It's funny how some people like to decide what's right or wrong for everyone else...
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  6. #26
    Originally Posted by M0J033 Go to original post
    But, in this game, gear optimization does play a significant factor and since, unlike a race car driver who has a pit crew to set up his car for him (which, btw, does require knowledge and skill, and is often the deciding factor in a race), then the knowledge of which attributes compliment each other and which one's don't, and the skill required to create a better build than your opponent are absolutely relevant in this discussion.

    It might be a different set of skills than those required to aim and shoot, but they are still skills nonetheless.

    If a player is adept at one set of skills but not the other, then that player will likely be at a significant disadvantage to one who excels at BOTH.
    I take your point. I've raced cars to a degree and yes, setup is an art. But not an art of driving. That is physics. I great driver can drive around a bad car with skill. A bad driver can be quick in a well setup car. That does not make them skillful. Take setup out of the equation and truly find out who has more skill. Weaker players want as many things (options for OP set, or in this case build) to give them the upper hand. Players wanting to genuinely test themselves want as little variables as possible. I used to race online with fixed setup lobbies so we knew who was the best driver. We wanted to test ourselves. Not steam roll over opponents, win then brag about it.

    I just hate all the epeen nonsense that's spouted on online gaming forums (not just TD) by players who crave to be worshipped for skill in PvP. Macho bravado about pixels lol.

    No doubt I'll get called bad at PvP or words to that effect because of my opinion, just like when I criticise the DZ people automatically think I struggle. It doesn't even register in their tiny mind that a good player could still criticise it without being bad at it. So what if I am? so what if I'm not? Nobody's opinion on an online forum is going to prove anything anyway.

    The quicker some posters realise that, the better.
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  7. #27
    M0J033's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Silz616 Go to original post
    I take your point. I've raced cars to a degree and yes, setup is an art. But not an art of driving. That is physics. I great driver can drive around a bad car with skill. A bad driver can be quick in a well setup car. That does not make them skillful. Take setup out of the equation and truly find out who has more skill. Weaker players want as many things (options for OP set, or in this case build) to give them the upper hand. Players wanting to genuinely test themselves want as little variables as possible. I used to race online with fixed setup lobbies so we knew who was the best driver. We wanted to test ourselves. Not steam roll over opponents, win then brag about it.

    I just hate all the epeen nonsense that's spouted on online gaming forums (not just TD) by players who crave to be worshipped for skill in PvP. Macho bravado about pixels lol.

    No doubt I'll get called bad at PvP or words to that effect because of my opinion, just like when I criticise the DZ people automatically think I struggle. It doesn't even register in their tiny mind that a good player could still criticise it without being bad at it. So what if I am? so what if I'm not? Nobody's opinion on an online forum is going to prove anything anyway.

    The quicker some posters realise that, the better.
    I find that, when it comes to shooters, certain people seem to believe that their "skill" (i.e. aiming and shooting) is somehow more legitimate or important than another player's "skill" (i.e. knowledge of the game, which weapons and abilities are more effective than others, which talents synergize with others, etc., and their ability to use this knowledge to create a more effective build), when the reality is that BOTH of these "skills" are necessary for a player to reach their full potential.

    Sure, you can get by on one or the other, but the truly GREAT players tend to be "skilled" in all aspects of the game, not just the pew pew part.
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  8. #28
    Originally Posted by M0J033 Go to original post
    I find that, when it comes to shooters, certain people seem to believe that their "skill" (i.e. aiming and shooting) is somehow more legitimate or important than another player's "skill" (i.e. knowledge of the game, which weapons and abilities are more effective than others, which talents synergize with others, etc., and their ability to use this knowledge to create a more effective build), when the reality is that BOTH of these "skills" are necessary for a player to reach their full potential.

    Sure, you can get by on one or the other, but the truly GREAT players tend to be "skilled" in all aspects of the game, not just the pew pew part.

    My one problem with your argument that they're both important...lack of skill with builds can be mitigated with youtube and time. You don't have to figure it out yourself, just watch someone else do it and then spend the time to get what they have.
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  9. #29
    Originally Posted by M0J033 Go to original post
    I find that, when it comes to shooters, certain people seem to believe that their "skill" (i.e. aiming and shooting) is somehow more legitimate or important than another player's "skill" (i.e. knowledge of the game, which weapons and abilities are more effective than others, which talents synergize with others, etc., and their ability to use this knowledge to create a more effective build), when the reality is that BOTH of these "skills" are necessary for a player to reach their full potential.

    Sure, you can get by on one or the other, but the truly GREAT players tend to be "skilled" in all aspects of the game, not just the pew pew part.
    I find that when you take the training wheels off, the braggers tend to skulk off to do something else. They people who use the easy stuff, and find loopholes and exploits or "best builds", then have it taken away, don't want to master the harder stuff and don't like the competition that comes with it.

    People who want to see how they genuinely stack up against other players, don't look for a ton of variables. They want barebones. In my experiences these people/players/drivers don't brag about their "skill" either.

    Am I more of a skillful player for using a headset over someone that doesn't? I don't believe so. It just gives me an advantage. Am I more skillfull for reloading cancelling to get a quicker reload? No, it just gives me an advantage. There's a difference IMO.

    Anyway, I'll leave it there.

    Cya
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  10. #30
    M0J033's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Silz616 Go to original post
    I find that when you take the training wheels off, the braggers tend to skulk off to do something else. They people who use the easy stuff, and find loopholes and exploits or "best builds", then have it taken away, don't want to master the harder stuff and don't like the competition that comes with it.

    People who want to see how they genuinely stack up against other players, don't look for a ton of variables. They want barebones. In my experiences these people/players/drivers don't brag about their "skill" either.

    Am I more of a skillful player for using a headset over someone that doesn't? I don't believe so. It just gives me an advantage. Am I more skillfull for reloading cancelling to get a quicker reload? No, it just gives me an advantage. There's a difference IMO.

    Anyway, I'll leave it there.

    Cya
    I wouldn't say that simply using a headset is necessarily "skillful" by itself, but using your knowledge of the game to understand that using a headset provides you with an advantage, and to actually use it as an advantage (as opposed to singing into it, for example), would certainly be a reflection of your overall skillfulness at the game, IMO.
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