Third Person Aiming---please straight answer! Thanks in advance | Forums

[topeira1980]

The proof is in the gameplay videos that have been released. It's subtle and automatic so not a lot of players have actually utilized the system. You can peek around corners and/or peek over short cover using your ADS button once your character is actually "in cover".

It's kinda similar to the system in Far Cry:

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Or Battlefield 4:

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However, it seems to allow you to also "peek over" unstead of just "around" from side to side.

but this is not proof there is a cover (leaning) system in GR:W. it's just proof there is one in FC3 and BF4 (which i already knew and used a lot).
is there a video of GR:W where you can see anyone using a leaning\cover system?
because i've seen every piece of footage looking for such a mechanic and havent seen a single instance of it being used. not once. for all i can see - it doesnt exist and you are speculating or wishful thinking.
I havent even saw in a video an instance where the player character changes his posture when standing close to a wall to even imply there is a leaning systen.
Quantum break and the upcoming mass effect: andromeda have a leaning system that doesnt require a button press. i wouldnt mind if GRW had such a thing, but while i could clearly see such a system in the little footage of andromeda we got so far, i couldnt find any shred of proof such a system exists in all the huge amount of footage of GR:W that was released.

FYI - im not a guy who argues for semantics - a system that allows me to lean (a leaning system) is just as good as a system that glues me to cover and allows me to lean ( a cover system) even if some might say they are different. to me they cover the same need - the ability to lean around a corner without the need to walk left - right like in an arcade game.

[Lolssi]

A cover system will usually have a pop out and shoot mechanic but more importantly the hit boxes will be carefully adjusted to be in cover. A cover animation just makes it appear that you're in cover, but won't adjust the hitboxes to align with the cover geometry which takes a lot more work especially with organic looking cover - not a problem in PvE because the AI can be told to ignore you or shoot at the cover if you're in an "in-cover" state, but in a PvP mode (if we get one of course) the model will need to make sure that every pixel is hidden at the correct angles. In a big open world this could be a problem.

From my limited experience it usually works bit opposite. Person thinks he is in cover behind some nice waist high thing but actually has top of his head visible and takes damage (actually better than magical cover). An then there is the worse example where you can actually see leg/arm/head behind the cover and keep shooting those but bullets just go through without damage because he is in "cover".
But yeah I haven't played many cover shooters because of the boring gameplay and usually they also have limited save system for some reason.

[FighterForJC]

but this is not proof there is a cover (leaning) system in GR:W. it's just proof there is one in FC3 and BF4 (which i already knew and used a lot).
is there a video of GR:W where you can see anyone using a leaning\cover system?
because i've seen every piece of footage looking for such a mechanic and havent seen a single instance of it being used. not once. for all i can see - it doesnt exist and you are speculating or wishful thinking.
I havent even saw in a video an instance where the player character changes his posture when standing close to a wall to even imply there is a leaning systen.
Quantum break and the upcoming mass effect: andromeda have a leaning system that doesnt require a button press. i wouldnt mind if GRW had such a thing, but while i could clearly see such a system in the little footage of andromeda we got so far, i couldnt find any shred of proof such a system exists in all the huge amount of footage of GR:W that was released.

FYI - im not a guy who argues for semantics - a system that allows me to lean (a leaning system) is just as good as a system that glues me to cover and allows me to lean ( a cover system) even if some might say they are different. to me they cover the same need - the ability to lean around a corner without the need to walk left - right like in an arcade game.

Let's also not forget that first and foremost, this is a THIRD PERSON shooter. Any leaning/snapping on to cover must be viewable in 3rd person (first person is lazy because it only has to SUGGEST that you're behind cover).

I understand how some people don't mind not having a real cover system, but they shouldn't act like games that feature a real cover system had it all wrong this whole time and were silly for having them.

[ThePollie]

As said before, I would rather not have a contextual, snap-to-cover system. Stand, crouch, prone, lean left, lean right, and that will do for virtually any and all situations you'll find. Some fine tuning, such as what ARMA III allows, would definitely help, but aren't required.

But a snap-to-cover system is severely limited, especially if you can't control stances, such as The Division not allowing out-of-cover crouching. If ever you find an item that isn't scripted to be cover in the system, it becomes incredibly difficult to use as cover.

[Cortexian]

This is NOT a cover system. This is a lean mechanic, which is fine. Everybody understands that a cover system is something like past Ghost Recons and Gears of War.

It's a system that allows you to interact with cover in a way that is more detailed than simply placing your character behind it. It is definitely a cover system. It's just not the kind of system that you're accustomed to.

but this is not proof there is a cover (leaning) system in GR:W. it's just proof there is one in FC3 and BF4 (which i already knew and used a lot).
is there a video of GR:W where you can see anyone using a leaning\cover system?
because i've seen every piece of footage looking for such a mechanic and havent seen a single instance of it being used. not once. for all i can see - it doesnt exist and you are speculating or wishful thinking.
I havent even saw in a video an instance where the player character changes his posture when standing close to a wall to even imply there is a leaning systen.
Quantum break and the upcoming mass effect: andromeda have a leaning system that doesnt require a button press. i wouldnt mind if GRW had such a thing, but while i could clearly see such a system in the little footage of andromeda we got so far, i couldnt find any shred of proof such a system exists in all the huge amount of footage of GR:W that was released.

FYI - im not a guy who argues for semantics - a system that allows me to lean (a leaning system) is just as good as a system that glues me to cover and allows me to lean ( a cover system) even if some might say they are different. to me they cover the same need - the ability to lean around a corner without the need to walk left - right like in an arcade game.

Go look at the GAMEPLAY videos from E3 2016. You need to keep an eye out for it when players are near man made structures like buildings and fences. There's definitely some animations that happen automatically that show this system happening.

The problem is that the developers weren't advertising the system at E3 2016, so no one was trying to use it. It happened a few times by coincidence, and it felt entirely natural to watch happen.

[FighterForJC]

It's a system that allows you to interact with cover in a way that is more detailed than simply placing your character behind it. It is definitely a cover system. It's just not the kind of system that you're accustomed to.

If the definition is "interact with cover in a way that is more detailed than simply placing your character behind it," then leaning is NOT a cover system. It's not just the functionality, it's the aesthetics of it all. If aesthetics didn't matter then there's a whole bunch of things that we should be doing without, like getting rid of the gun models and just have a reticle like in the old Ghost Recon games. Character models should just be polygons or literally just moving hit boxes. The industry fell in love with Gears of War 10 years ago in large part because of the cover system. There are other open world games that let you do a ton of things but still feature a cover system (GTA V, Ubisoft's Watchdogs), so there's really no excuse to not have one. It's just laziness, plain and simple. I don't think Ubisoft is "revolutionizing" 3rd person shooters by opening our eyes to how silly a Gears-style cover system is.

[EchoFiveKilo]

It's a system that allows you to interact with cover in a way that is more detailed than simply placing your character behind it. It is definitely a cover system. It's just not the kind of system that you're accustomed to.


Go look at the GAMEPLAY videos from E3 2016. You need to keep an eye out for it when players are near man made structures like buildings and fences. There's definitely some animations that happen automatically that show this system happening.

The problem is that the developers weren't advertising the system at E3 2016, so no one was trying to use it. It happened a few times by coincidence, and it felt entirely natural to watch happen.

Can you provide the video with time stamps showing them? I've seen every GR:W video released and havent seen the cover system once.

[EchoFiveKilo]

can you back these statements of a contextual fluid cover system with proof? can you show a couple of points in a video of this?

because if you mean that you've seen a character crouching behind a low wall then look over the wall tgan thats not a cover systen. its just the posture of the soldier when aiming is more upright than when he is walking crouched.

what we need is a way to lean around corners (left and right). not only look over cover. such a mechanic hasnt been shown even once and is the main reason why im not buying the game. im not i to running left and right like a moron to fire around cover. i want to act like a soldier - only exposing a gun, head and a shoulder.

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying to everyone on Youtube, where a tonne of fanboys are all defending the decision to remove the cover system. A real trained soldier/operator exposes minimal amounts of his body when exchanging fire with the enemy. Some people tend to think that the whole move analog stick left to right, popping in and out, side stepping and exposing your whole body is a better alternative to a cover system, to me its the main reason why I probably wont buy this game, I dont want to feel like I'm playing some arcade shooter. I will only get this game if the 'seamless cover system' I've heard of on this forum exists, and at this point, there is no footage to prove that it exists.

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I want you all to watch this video at 6:09. Watch the soldier firing around the corner/wall, exposing minimal amounts of his body. GRFS had a cover system like this, and it was realistic, definitely more realistic than side steping out of cover and exposing your whole body. This TV Show in particular that I'm showing you here, had SAS/SBS instructors as military advisors on the show, so I'm definitely sure that they know a whole lot more than us on matters like these. I had some idiot on Youtube cite his 'love of military history' to backup his ridiculous claims that a cover system is 'highly unrealistic'.

[Cortexian]

If the definition is "interact with cover in a way that is more detailed than simply placing your character behind it," then leaning is NOT a cover system. It's not just the functionality, it's the aesthetics of it all. If aesthetics didn't matter then there's a whole bunch of things that we should be doing without, like getting rid of the gun models and just have a reticle like in the old Ghost Recon games. Character models should just be polygons or literally just moving hit boxes. The industry fell in love with Gears of War 10 years ago in large part because of the cover system. There are other open world games that let you do a ton of things but still feature a cover system (GTA V, Ubisoft's Watchdogs), so there's really no excuse to not have one. It's just laziness, plain and simple. I don't think Ubisoft is "revolutionizing" 3rd person shooters by opening our eyes to how silly a Gears-style cover system is.

I would agree that a simple leaning/peeking system wouldn't be a cover system. However as far as I can tell from the videos showing off the system so far, and from first person accounts, there is more to it than that. I haven't personally played the E3 2016 playable build, so I can't comment on specifics.

However your character does seem to interact with certain cover automatically. Hugging it more than simply placing your character model next to it. There are animations involved in this.

Can you provide the video with time stamps showing them? I've seen every GR:W video released and havent seen the cover system once.

Another user mentioned a couple examples in the thread already IIRC.

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying to everyone on Youtube, where a tonne of fanboys are all defending the decision to remove the cover system. A real trained soldier/operator exposes minimal amounts of his body when exchanging fire with the enemy. Some people tend to think that the whole move analog stick left to right, popping in and out, side stepping and exposing your whole body is a better alternative to a cover system, to me its the main reason why I probably wont buy this game, I dont want to feel like I'm playing some arcade shooter. I will only get this game if the 'seamless cover system' I've heard of on this forum exists, and at this point, there is no footage to prove that it exists.

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I want you all to watch this video at 6:09. Watch the soldier firing around the corner/wall, exposing minimal amounts of his body. GRFS had a cover system like this, and it was realistic, definitely more realistic than side steping out of cover and exposing your whole body. This TV Show in particular that I'm showing you here, had SAS/SBS instructors as military advisors on the show, so I'm definitely sure that they know a whole lot more than us on matters like these. I had some idiot on Youtube cite his 'love of military history' to backup his ridiculous claims that a cover system is 'highly unrealistic'.

The video you posted depicts some inaccurate cover utilization. I'm an actual firearms instructor, and that's honestly not how you should be doing it. Your back should NEVER be to a wall on a corner like they find themselves doing, unless you're planning on giving up that position within the next few seconds.

Here's a little video showing how most soldiers and LEO's are trained to use cover (specifically around corners) in today's world:

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I wanted to expand on this video, but after you posted that fairly inaccurate representation, I feel like I'd be doing a disservice if I didn't post this now.

Edit: OMG the longer I watch that video the worse it gets. Running into an open field, seeing an armed technical and a cluster of bad guys and decide to stop in the open field, standing, and engage them. That's a great way to get yourself killed IRL.

Most games I've seen with cover systems like Future Soldier and Gears of War implement a horribly incorrect animation set in conjunction with their cover. However, they need to do this so that cover isn't extremely "OP". They need to force the player model out more than it needs to be in order to balance the conflict between a player in cover and a player getting caught in the open. Because it's a game, and having extremely unfair mechanics actually makes for some pretty not fun gameplay.

Implementing perfectly realistic cover animations, like the ones I demonstrated in the video, would result in such small hitboxes being exposed on characters in cover that it would be EXTREMELY hard to take people out that are tucked neatly behind cover.

Even if Wildlands has no cover system (pretty sure it does, as discussed above), you can still "use cover" correctly by SLOWLY sidestepping out of cover and "slicing the pie" around a corner. Obviously if we could lean a little, like in games such as Arma, it would be a bit more realistic. But again, it could be less fun to some degree.

[ThePollie]

Excellent video. Demonstrates perfectly the issue I have with a lot of contextual cover systems, and my seething hate for the people that so feverishly defend them. Shoulder-to-cover and then peek-shooting enemies is simply bad form. I'd much rather be able to lean and stand a step or so back from cover, rather than predictably expose myself ( a lot myself, in fact) because the cover system decides this is what I should be doing.