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  1. #21
    Skill up has the right intentions, but I don't think his ideas would help improve the dz. For example, what happens if I fire at 1 player to flag pvp, that player decides to run and someone completely different decides to fire on me? For that matter, if I flag pvp and the player starts to fire on me, who goes rogue in that scenario? Are we doing away with rogue mechanics altogether?

    Imo the only fix for dz ganking is factions. Either randomly place players or groups that enter into agent or rogue factions, or let people choose each time they enter the dz. Once you choose rogue, you are rogue for the rest of your session, or vice versa. The concept of running 5 minutes and I'm all good again is stupid and I've said that since the beta. With factions the enemy will appear on minimap so you know someone is approaching hostile. It may be npc or player deal with it accordingly.

    What happens to the other rogue mechanics you say? It goes away. The only penalty that ought to be in place inside the dz is that you lose your loot if you get killed. Losing xp and dz funds and keys are not acceptable mechanics. Players don't login to play a game to lose progress.

    But qpMaverickqp I want to get manhunt and get all that xp and cash!!! Manhunt will still exist, it will just be more like a kill streak kind of thing. I kill 10 agents without dying? Then I am eligible for 5000xp and 25000 dz credits. Wow I'm at 20 kills no deaths now I'm up for 15000xp, 60k dz funds, 10 division tech and a sealed cache of some sort. These bonuses will be claimable from the checkpoint vendor upon respawn when you eventually die. So what if I don't die and I wanna leave the dz? At that point, and so long as you have an active bounty (i.e. a reward or kill streak available) a notification will go out to the entire dz kind of like supply drop notice. You have to defend at a designated checkpoint for x minutes. Other people in your faction can come to help or you might just get killed, but it won't matter at that point because your reward is secure. It will matter to the agents who try to kill you as they basically have the opportunity to kill in essence a dz hvt and successfully doing so would get them a similar type of reward at the cp vendor. Oh and if you dc or transfer dz, you lose your reward when you relog at the dz checkpoint.

    Might not be the perfect system but I am certain just the bare bones i mention would be a much better system than the current dz or what we will probably get come 1.6 This system will allow for more free and open pvp, players know who the enemy is and make the decision to fight or run same as skill up suggests, and it should make the dz much more attractive to all players. The dz is primarily for pvp, you can farm pve and get gear extracted between the pvp action, but nobody should be heading into the dz to progress their build as the main intention.

    But I digress, the devs at Red Storm by their own admission are as$holes, so expect more backstabbing and bull$hit in 1.6.
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  2. #22
    Originally Posted by sgtnogo Go to original post
    IMHO the problem with turning on friendly fire is it favors rouges. If you enter the DZ with the intent to gank, you really don't care if you accidentally hit a friendly player. Your intention is to already gun down people at random. All this accomplishes is too make it more difficult for those that do not want to go rogue.

    In most, if not all other PvP games, you can easily identify your enemies. In this game you can't easily identify enemies, unless they are already rogue. The rogue timer times out and then enemy can no longer be identified.

    Many like the DZ as it is, many don't. There are obviously problems. And the problems are bad enough that 75% of active players won't go in. I would PvP if I had at least a 2% chance. But being not GUD I guess I won't. It's pointless to go to the DZ just to be someones target. You lose DZ funds, and experience. I would remove the penalties for being rogue and and a target (without have to put on an otherwise worthless gear set).

    Hope they fix PvP, looking forward to being a target.
    I believe you understand it incorrectly. Enabling friendly fire means that rogue groups can't run and jump around at random as your team mate's grenade or sticky can put you down just like it can put another agent down. Currently if i toss a grenade it can hit me but not my team mates.
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  3. #23
    Gamma.Gaming's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by qpMaverickqp Go to original post
    I believe you understand it incorrectly. Enabling friendly fire means that rogue groups can't run and jump around at random as your team mate's grenade or sticky can put you down just like it can put another agent down. Currently if i toss a grenade it can hit me but not my team mates.
    You can still hit your teammates, by staggering them if you used frag or fire grenades (they will be on fire)
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  4. #24
    Cons72's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Winslow-the-Dog Go to original post
    I've said this before but friendly fire either needs to be ON for everyone or OFF for everyone. The whole running around in circles hip firing nonsense is encouraged by the fact that you can spray and pray without any concern about hitting another player on your own team. Anyone trying to run in a group of more than four knows how dangerous even PvE can be if you are able to accidentally hit a friendly.

    So, either it is a free for all where getting hit by a bullet from any other player causes damage OR non-rogue agents cannot shoot other non rogue agents.

    This means you have to consciously make the intention to go rogue BEFORE you shoot someone. I don't think that needs to be done at a checkpoint necessarily, but I do think that when you select rogue status in your menu there should be a short delay before you can shoot your weapon. Whether or not you agree that AB is overpowered, I have 495k toughness with around 55% armour mitigation but if a player points his gun at me without warning and opens fire with a good AB build, I'm pretty much down before his red skull is up. Realistic? Yes of course, but conducive to good PvP? Not really.


    That is an interesting idea. Why should it be shooting another player is what makes you go rogue? Just make it so you select that you are now going rogue and that starts a 30 second rogue countdown, similar to if you went rogue by shooting someone.

    This way, you can still have rogues at any time, but it allows for friendly fire to be on or off for everyone.
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  5. #25
    SolidSage's Avatar Senior Member
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    The simplest fix would be the cleanest and avoid new problems.
    Leave it as is with the exception of HOW Rogue is initiated.
    Add a "denounce TD allegiance" emote. Player uses Dpad, makes avatar give the middle finger Rogue status is activated, skull appears on minimap.

    No friendly fire at all, because 4 man Rogue teams don't worry about FF at all. It only assists them when non team hunters try to fight them.

    This will swing the DZ back in the Hunter favor, but a DZ that favors multi team Rogues is an absolute waste and is responsible for players washing their hands of the game.
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  6. #26
    Regarding SkillUp's latest Video~Personally I think that something similar to Survival would be better, fewer options to pinpoint and put into practice. What about simply making a choice before going into the DZ that you don't want to PVP and anyone who "Ganks" you or tries to engage you by running in front of your firing weapon gains nothing by killing you? That is the biggest thrill for alot of people to gain "points" and "loot". I honestly don't see the thrill in "killing" someone who will never be able to beat you in a fight because they just don't have the min/max build that some are able to achieve. I like the DZ better since I use Banshee and have actually been able to gain rank but do not go looking for a fight. I go to get DZ credits and items I may not get as quickly in other places. I actually have only one DZ kill and that was a total accident and was completely surprised when it happened.
    Additionally, SkillUp's idea about running away will not work as some of these people just chase you down anyway, multiple times. At that point I just leave the DZ but it is very discouraging to not be able to have some success in all aspects of a game that you pay good money for. I don't want to be the best I just want a fighting chance and not to get "Ganked" continually.
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  7. #27
    Originally Posted by S3anS3an Go to original post
    Disclaimer:

    I am a PVP player, I think the DZ is not worth doing outside of fighting other players, I think damage mitigation is destroying PVP.

    Now lets begins....

    The too short didnt watch summary goes as followed.

    1. All Agents and Rogues are always highlighted on the mini map

    2. This is the big one. When you fire 1 bullet at another agent you are marked as PVP flagged.

    The other player then.....

    Gets Full health
    Cooldowns get reset
    Is invincible to all damage for 3-5 seconds giving people a chance to prepare or run away.

    Lets say in a perfect world where players dont decide to abuse this into the ground do you think this is a good idea?
    No its not a good idea that's cheesy as hell. No other game that has PVP has that type of mechanic.
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  8. #28
    Corrupt.be's Avatar Senior Member
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    The reasons why he would suggest this are right, his suggestions though... nope.

    Personally I think the whole DZ Rogue mechanic needs an overhaul at its core rather then slapping band aids onto it.

    1 change I would suggest though relates to groups and the typical body blocking complaints:

    • 2 players in a group go Rogue
    • Player A's Timer is 3 minutes
    • Player B's Timer is 1 minute


    Currently when B's timer runs out, he can body block for A. What I would do is implement a "semi-rogue" state where player B (or the entire team for that matter) stays Rogue until the highest timer on the team runs out. Though during this "semi-rogue" state:
    • Non rogue players won't go rogue shooting you
    • Dying during this non rogue state (unless you fight non rogue agents) has no extra rogue penalties
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  9. #29
    SKORPIQN's Avatar Senior Member
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    His whole series of videos around 1.6 and PvP are going to be terrible.

    SkillUp isn't a PvPer.


    He should be promoting 4v4 ARENA PVP not overcomplicated ideas about the DZ and Rogue system. No one uses Tactican RUBBISH. Rogues sneek up on me RUBBISH! Use a Pulse, be aware of your surroundings. No Skill... Clearly doesn't know what actual skill entails.


    4v4 ARENA lets move on from DZ.
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