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  1. #21
    nairda2k9's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by ludkoto24 Go to original post
    I hate Rikers the most the second they see you they shoot you when you try go past the they kick you hit you everythin their shot gunners are like hounds. LMBs are cooler they look more takitival don't shoot none stop . Over all the mobs are not very bad atm capared few patches ago
    Yeah those pesky Shot gunners are bad but those guys with the axe will chase you from the bottom to the top of the map!!
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  2. #22
    nairda2k9's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by PH.Gammatron016 Go to original post
    And add also that NPCs tends to lock their sights on you even some of your team mates already shooting him!
    You are right but that means you have higher threat level than others in your group, they will always target you in that case.
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  3. #23
    I actually though something like this was happening too. I spend most of my time solo in the DZ and a few weeks ago i could run through it and kill the NPCs with ease really and now even with my alpha setup with the same 350K DPS (22 additional armor damage, 20.1K base damage per bullet) on the same LVOA-C/Famas combo (deadly, vicious,responsive,destructive,unforgiving,compete nt) it takes nearly a whole clip (64 bullets in a clip) to kill just 1 basic purple rioter or riker. I used to be able to kill 2 or 3 of them with the same clip in the sames guns with the same gear. I think they are doing something to it for sure or the netcode is so messed up that only half or less of the bullets are actually registering hits.
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  4. #24
    Winslow-the-Dog's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by PH.Gammatron016 Go to original post
    Then don't run pass them (easy fix). Even though you have X value of toughness and 10+ K of armor, it doesn't mean that you can face tank those NPC.

    NPC in DZ right now are balanced and not overpowered like from 1.3 where you will be one shotted by a mp4, which is ridiculous. They also do damage in numbers, like those rioters in DZ 1 where they will overwhelm you in your cover.
    Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't agree with this. I'm not a computer whiz kid and I can't datamine information to correlate this but I have done a lot of "testing" in the DZ and I have come to the conclusion that enemy damage (AI) is not calculated on a per bullet basis monitoring every ADS and the probability of them making a hit with regard to obstacles, line of sight, distance, movement speed etc. It would probably be expecting too much if it was. However what I am seeing is damage calculated at initial contact being applied over time 'regardless' of what evasive action you take other than actually going into cover.

    This means if you start to get hit hard and continue running, even if you run back the way you came, you will continue to take the same damage and you will go down if you don't reach cover. Often just running behind something like a bus doesn't stop the damage either until you actually go into cover (use X on the keypad).

    It also seems that you take more damage from the back than the rear which makes running past NPCs very dangerous but equally makes running back to cover just as suicidal. The trick is to engage but if you aren't in a team you often get overwhelmed.

    No doubt these observations will be distrusted as they have no quantifiable data to back them up but we have tested this at the library in the DZ one player stands in the open behind the bus so that line of sight with all AI is blocked. Another player then runs past the library attracts fire and dodges past the bus to stand next to the first player. The first player remains unscathed the player who just ran past the library continues taking damage but both players are out of line of sight of the AI. It is either really bad lag or something is very wrong with how damage is being calculated.
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  5. #25
    Gamma.Gaming's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Winslow-the-Dog Go to original post
    Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't agree with this. I'm not a computer whiz kid and I can't datamine information to correlate this but I have done a lot of "testing" in the DZ and I have come to the conclusion that enemy damage (AI) is not calculated on a per bullet basis monitoring every ADS and the probability of them making a hit with regard to obstacles, line of sight, distance, movement speed etc. It would probably be expecting too much if it was. However what I am seeing is damage calculated at initial contact being applied over time 'regardless' of what evasive action you take other than actually going into cover.
    And that's why you don't run in front of them! Gees. Why would you go run in front of them at the first place knowing that they will shoot you at the back? You can't just waltz in the middle of the cross fire without taking any damage at all. And besides, some players know how to evade those NPCs without getting detected (which is running on either sides of the street, or use vehicles as cover), and as i've said from my post, NPC do a lot of damage in numbers so expect them that you will be melted in seconds.

    And if you think that there was a bug with the accuracy, i'm partially agree with you but IRL, those bullets will still reach you in split seconds of taking cover.
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  6. #26
    I think the NPC's have had a slight boost recently, when 1.4 came out I could solo the DZ and found even DZ 6 was achievable, only the LMB in the centre was an avoid zone, as a solo agent, it could be done but was so much work decided the reward was not worth the effort..
    Now despite having made significant gains on my stamina, DPS and skill power, I am finding the level 34 purple Rikers in DZ 2 are kicking my rear.
    The single biggest issue now is the f..k..g stupid running by the Rikers especially where they run from cover to cover faster than Usain Bolt, you can't get a bead consistently to do any damage, but as soon as you put your head up from cover every Riker has a bead on you and they melt your armour.
    The other gripe on NPC's is the unbelievable arms they have to drop a hand grenade on you from a city block away, instantly after you have sniped one of them, your zone goes red as the chubby guy has pinged you with a grenade.
    What annoys also is the grenade that lands, instantly explodes and bam you are dead, no chance to roll away, computer aided death, as you have no chance to avoid it. I was fighting the 3 LMG Rikers guys near the library, had killed 2 of the LMG guys, all of the support NPC's and had the last named boss, animal?, down to about half of his last yellow base bar when he said throwing a grenade, the screen lit up red, I hit to roll away, boom, it explodes and instantly you are dead. So pissed, so much work wasted as I had not collected any of the fallen tokens, but no chance to avoid.
    Still find the balance is better than 1.3 but there have definitely been subtle boosts to NPC armour and hit power, massive boost to the wet chook running, where they tear around between cover, more running at times than fighting, but you can not nail them at the speed they rush around.
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  7. #27
    Neumeusis's Avatar Senior Member
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    DZ NPCs are the weakest of all game, as they are balanced to be killable reasonably by solo players (starting with GS231+).
    Once you get GS 256, DZ starts to become really easy.
    And if you manage to get a correct build (= Armor on all pieces and balanced main stats), DZ is a real joke of run&gun.
    Even more in groups if you have a DPS player or two : they drop so fast that i sometimes don't even have time to shoot them.

    Story Missions and HVTs have much stronger NPCs (well, in Challenging...).

    We are verrrryyy far from 1.3 where you would be one-shot by anything without smart Cover, or melted instantly by any flamethrower.
     1 people found this helpful
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  8. #28
    I wouldn't go as far as saying its back to 1.3 levels. I would say that something has changed in regards to NPC taking and giving damage (purple and elites, reds are very easy). As we are all aware NPCs are super aggressive, never miss and all guns are like sniper rifles and hopefully that will be fixed. I have a decent setup (armor on all but mask and all mods have armor), not the best, but I usually have no issues doing missions or UG group or solo but I believe the DZ NPCs have been tweaked a bit over the last few weeks.
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  9. #29
    Winslow-the-Dog's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by PH.Gammatron016 Go to original post
    And that's why you don't run in front of them! Gees. Why would you go run in front of them at the first place knowing that they will shoot you at the back? You can't just waltz in the middle of the cross fire without taking any damage at all. And besides, some players know how to evade those NPCs without getting detected (which is running on either sides of the street, or use vehicles as cover), and as i've said from my post, NPC do a lot of damage in numbers so expect them that you will be melted in seconds.

    And if you think that there was a bug with the accuracy, i'm partially agree with you but IRL, those bullets will still reach you in split seconds of taking cover.
    Noted, if you are PvEing and have time to plan your approach. It is a little more difficult when chasing someone. Keeping to one side of the street only works to prevent aggroing the ADS. If a group with any skill leads you through there, they keep to one side and aggro the NPCs as they pass (seekers etc) and leave you to deal with it.

    The problem is exacerbated if you are no longer in a full team as you will get focus fired the way four man teams or larger don't. You can stop and or deviate but that often ends up with you getting left behind or losing the group entirely and this is how manhunts run off their timer.

    If you like it then that's fine. Campaign to keep it this way. Personally, my idea of PvP doesn't include being shot in the back by a group of four using tac link then having to chase them all over the map through NPCs watching their timer run down before they turn round come back and do it again.
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  10. #30
    Veldaz's Avatar Senior Member
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    I for one think it's a good thing that it's less likely we can just run past them. If anything the NPCs need to do more damage (I run past just fine and I'm fragile as heck). They should be incursion hard, not pansies. It's DZ, not a normal mission.

    They're there. They should be an obstacle. That's the whole point of them being there.

    They shouldn't be 1.3 tough though. But they do need a bit of a boost (and no, that doesn't mean make them spongy). And maybe increase their detection range if you're not hiding from sight through cover. Make people be a little stealthy through effort (using cover to hide) and engage them if they get seen. With retreat being the only viable option if things go bad. By which I mean retreating backwards, not running past/through them which is far too easy to do.

    If you do get through them though vehicles can still be used for cover as you run past. That's a fine tactic. I got no problem with that. It's immersive and smart. What isn't immersive and smart is going right through a mob and acting like it's just a merry jog without even trying to do that.
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