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  1. #11
    Cons72's Avatar Senior Member
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    Ideas for thought

    Eliminate crit damage all together

    Leave crit damage but remove all crit buffs from gear. Only have crits tied to skills, the weapon, or weapon mods.

    Edit: I am not saying it would be good to proceed with either of these at this point in the game. Just putting it out there as things that could be done to simplify the game some and maybe should have been considered.

    Look at how much they had to buff up enemies in 1.3 because of the huge amounts of damage SOME people were doing with pulse/smart cover builds. Then that led to all the problems with 1.3, that led to 1.4.

    If crit damage were never in the game, the problems in 1.2 and 1.3 might never have happened.
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  2. #12
    Originally Posted by SKORPIQN Go to original post
    The reason you don't see many different builds is because most people don't look past the first primary stat page and copy youtube builds. The RPG for dummies guide to git gud.

    However, spend enough time in the DZ and you'll notice that Strikers Shotguns are being experimented with/developed. I've seen Frontline Shield builds, Predator Shield builds, FireCrest Shield builds. 4x Final Measure + Shortbow Kneepads. Alpha Bridge Snipers. Tactician Seekers. ReclaimerTac medics, etc etc all viable when team synergy is involved and some skill.

    Problem is all anyone sees are the individual builds, the boring straight forward linear thinking troglodyte builds of alpha famas and since launch, stacking firearms and armour. But just bexause they're simple doesn't mean other builds are broken or unviable... You gotta build it right and then you gotta learn how to play it.


    If PVP ARENA was a thing, you'd see a huge difference in build diversity because the real variables are respawns, AI and battles of attrition that reside in the environment... The DZ. Most people get ganked and throw their build away, make mistakes playing but blame the build not the user.

    Trust me, the game needs work no doubt... But it ain't broken.
    Adding on to the above, I'll reiterate, the stat lottery what passes for crafting in this game makes things worse, because build development/ tweaking stats in a stat lottery is a nightmare.
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  3. #13
    The saddest thing is, you can go into challenging World Tier 5 with my example A from the above post and solo it if you play a little less aggressively and use a flame turret.

    I ran it once with the worst possible gear I could find for 256 gear score and it was not hard and I used a set that gave no benefits to the weapon I was using. I was using an assault rifle with the marksman set that gives crit damage instead of head shot damage to basically make it like i didn't have any gear set bonus while running the mission.

    This is a problem

    Granted in a group the enemies scale up, however I'v seen people solo challenging WT5 content in a 4 man where 3 of the guys just stayed at the starting area and never went further than a few steps into the mission, on purpose because they wanted to see if it could be done.


    Basically if you know what your doing, and have a decent build the content is to easy, if you don't have either it is going to be way to hard-----I don't have a solid solution to fixing this to be honest.

    so maybe it boils down to players not being able to figure this stuff out, in that case maybe put in a tutorial or some in game how to manual, but to be honest even with that it would be hard to tune future content.


    In a more classic MMORPG- you have class A(healer), B(tank),C(DPS), D(second DPS or utility)
    and to some degree they make all the healers put out roughly the same amount of healing, maybe one is more HoT focused, another is quick small heals, another is slower big heals ect..
    same with damage- one DPS is spike focused, vs sustained ect....

    In a game set up this way with obvious fixed stat BIS gear for each class it makes calculating content difficulty easier (there isn't a huge gear range on top of player ability)

    (when I say BIS I mean BIS for the content they are trying to beat not the potential reward for completing the task)

    If you know healer A with all BIS fixed stat gear can heal 50k health to every one in his party and do 10k DPS working at max efficiency (best skills/talents taken)
    If you know the DPS with fixed stat BIS gear can do roughly 100k DPS each at max efficiency (best skills/talents taken)
    if you know the Tank with fixed stat BIS gear has 300k health and 35%block of incoming damage, 10k DPS (best skills/talents taken)
    If you know utility with fixed stat BIS gear can do 40k DPS and CC 4 enemies for 10 seconds on a 20 5 second cool down,(best skills/talents taken)

    you can tune the content
    so that dmg done by the enemies is in s small range below what the healer can heal taking into account the utility or some one is CCing 4 or so enemies every 20 seconds for 10 second.
    so that you can make the Bosses health/armor and make it a slight range below what the 2 DPS can do + the healer and tank.

    obviously it is more in depth than that and this game doesn't have a class trinity healer/DPS/Tank system (wich actually makes balancing even harder,hey look that group all has a decent first aid heal)

    but it makes it easier to balance, and one thing I rarely heard in the MMO's I played is man that raid was way to easy, mainly because they were tuned so that every one in the group with BIS gear on(BIS from what they could get before the raid) would have to be at like 85%+ efficiency on skill rotations ect... and good tactics to get it done.

    Then a couple people get a few pieces of BIS as raid rewards and it gets a little easier, and a little easier (still very difficult), until every one in the group gets all the BIS gear from that raid or raids and it becomes easier. At this point it is easy enough you could carry a friend or maybe 2 with a little sub par gear through.Hopefully this process has taken a month or 2 or longer until the next extremely hard raid content drops and new BIS gear for a reward is introduced.


    I just don't see how any kind of Raid styled difficult progression content described above can be implemented into the game with all the variables in the game.

    This is why every patch some one figures out the new meta for each piece of content and can cheese it. Alpha Bridge with Famas- super fun to use but is OP, the Defence set can tank like a rock and do really good damage, OP
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  4. #14
    gt2k's Avatar Senior Member
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    Firecrest is weak? Firecrest gets stronger with more players that have it. A 4 man firecrest group is bigger pain then 4 alphabridge players.
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  5. #15
    I tend to make builds that I can do good in Solo just in case I need to do that.

    Never thought of running 4 man fire crest. Don't know how I feel about have to rely on more than 1 person in a group running the same set to make said set worth it.


    Man 4 man fire crest probably makes a lot of the content super super easy. Nice I learned something today, thank you sir


    Also I just want to point out my post was mainly PVE content focused when I was thinking about this topic, Haven't PVP'd much since 1.3- guess I should have stated that in the OP.
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  6. #16
    gt2k's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by AOD_sinister Go to original post
    ya but, why would you want to focus on a build you need 3 other people to make decent, I see what your saying though and it just seems wrong that you would need to have more than 1 person run the same set to make it decent
    Actually no you don't need 3 others to use it for it to be good. The set is good enough alone and when more people use it just becomes stronger. The flame turret when I use it can kill a player before the player can kill the turret.
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  7. #17
    Edea-XiaoLin's Avatar Senior Member
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    when i read this thread i thaught i must be playing another game,bcs most say the pve content is 2 easy !!!
    ok i must say i play solo 99% and even with full 256 gear(3nomad+2striker and accomplished kneepads
    i rarely feel tht i am overpowered,only in those moments when the AI got stucked or glitched.rest of the time
    its ridiculous how normal mobs could just kill me with their handguns from miles away with a few shots.
    dont get me wrong,its not tht the game is 2 easy or 2 hard its just massively unbalanced.and tht has to do with
    where u actually fight the npc.HVT for instance,some locations force u into a small room or area where tons of Npc rush u 2 death
    where in other places u have the chance to duck and run,look for cover and really play TD(which is really fun,even if i die)
    how comes tht the npc's r soo tanky and we r not? we die in a couple of shots even if we have 12k armor :O
    a lot of people also say they have a tanky build,wow the only way i can feel tanky in TD is to tune down WT to lv 2 with 256 build.
    most games i played before i can run through small/lower enemies and those barely scratch me,not in TD even red bar npc's r a threat,starnge

    for me personally the 3rd week of PTS for 1.4 was perfect as a solo player.maybe not for group-play i really cannot say.
    bcs as i said before i rarely play in a group.99% of the people i know who played TD had left this bugfeast long time ago.
    i am the only 1 left who has a very small amount of hope tht TD will become more interesting to play bcs i like the base game very much
    last thing i wanna say is tht i play games to relax and have fun,unfortunately TD turned out to be no more fun to play atm
    bring back the checkpoints into UG,i don't mind if u put me back to the starting point but do not END the session,no fun.
    thts all for now i think

    sayonara
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  8. #18
    Veldaz's Avatar Senior Member
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    when i read this thread i thaught i must be playing another game,bcs most say the pve content is 2 easy !!!
    You know we're talking about both PVP AND PVE, right?

    Probably more PVP talk going on then PVE if anything.
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  9. #19
    when i read this thread i thaught i must be playing another game,bcs most say the pve content is 2 easy !!!
    ok i must say i play solo 99% and even with full 256 gear(3nomad+2striker and accomplished kneepads
    i rarely feel tht i am overpowered,only in those moments when the AI got stucked or glitched.rest of the time
    its ridiculous how normal mobs could just kill me with their handguns from miles away with a few shots.
    dont get me wrong,its not tht the game is 2 easy or 2 hard its just massively unbalanced.and tht has to do with
    where u actually fight the npc.HVT for instance,some locations force u into a small room or area where tons of Npc rush u 2 death
    where in other places u have the chance to duck and run,look for cover and really play TD(which is really fun,even if i die)
    how comes tht the npc's r soo tanky and we r not? we die in a couple of shots even if we have 12k armor :O
    a lot of people also say they have a tanky build,wow the only way i can feel tanky in TD is to tune down WT to lv 2 with 256 build.
    most games i played before i can run through small/lower enemies and those barely scratch me,not in TD even red bar npc's r a threat,starnge

    for me personally the 3rd week of PTS for 1.4 was perfect as a solo player.maybe not for group-play i really cannot say.
    bcs as i said before i rarely play in a group.99% of the people i know who played TD had left this bugfeast long time ago.
    i am the only 1 left who has a very small amount of hope tht TD will become more interesting to play bcs i like the base game very much
    last thing i wanna say is tht i play games to relax and have fun,unfortunately TD turned out to be no more fun to play atm
    bring back the checkpoints into UG,i don't mind if u put me back to the starting point but do not END the session,no fun.
    thts all for now i think

    sayonara
    This is kinda what I'm talking about, some one needs to get to the bottom of what the Division in the Division is (Pun intended)


    Actually no you don't need 3 others to use it for it to be good. The set is good enough alone and when more people use it just becomes stronger. The flame turret when I use it can kill a player before the player can kill the turret.
    or you could run strikers with flame turret and you would have shorter flame distance + up to 100% extra dmg (realistically not going to be at 100% all the time, but 40 to 50% is doable and maintainable through a group of enemies)
    vs
    Staying with Firecrest have longer turret range and 15% dmg to enemies with flame static effect

    You basically can run flame turret on a number of different builds and essentially have a better "firecrest"- the 15% dmg doesn't compete with Alpha Bridge, Strikers, **** even Sentry's after the nerf is better

    [(stability+10%enemy armor dmg+ up to 100%dmg) + flame turret(minus some range and dmg)] > [(3 incendiary nades+ 30% turretdmg/50% range+ 15% dmg to flame statused enemies)]

    If you are running more fire arms heavy build or balanced the flame turret with even the +30 damage doesn't seem to do much damage to an enemy. It will do more with a heavier skill/electronics based build. Also if you put you turret in a bad spot its its doing 0 dmg, if it gets destroyed its doing 0 dmg and you are not getting the 15% 4 set unless some one else in the group is rolling with flame turret or air burst seeker mines or you pop an incendiary ect.... (if you are the only person in your group using flame skills I'd say you are getting the 15% dmg maybe 20% of the time you are shooting at a target, if you are in a good group less, the enemy is dead before your turret or nade puts the status effect on)

    Mean while striker always gets 10% enemy armor dmg, and if you are a decent shot will 80% of the time be over 25% dmg, I can maintain over 70% on larger groups with some health on kill on my gear.

    This is PVE im talking, PVP is tougher staying on a "dancing" player but its also tougher for FireCrest because they can just run from your turret or take cover from it.
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  10. #20
    Cons72's Avatar Senior Member
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    I use FireCrest when playing solo all the time. I found the crowd control to work much better for my play style than pure DPS.
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