Want cover based shooter? Reduce armour. | Forums

[III_Hammer_III]

Be careful what you wish for.

I know the game is supposed to be "cover based", but all of this sounds like trench warfare: you stay in your trench, the other dude stays in his trench, they shoot each other all day, no one dies.

[Dyslexic-Snail]

This is a cover based shooter, the problem is with the players that want to max everything as fast as possible then whine that the game is too easy and everything should be nerfed until the next time they try and use the said Gear set and realise it's useless now and then they whine it needs a buff. If the Armour is too much..simply don't stack it, don't max out your equipment and give yourself a challenge.

[mezzatron]

Be careful what you wish for.

I know the game is supposed to be "cover based", but all of this sounds like trench warfare: you stay in your trench, the other dude stays in his trench, they shoot each other all day, no one dies.

Yeh it may become trench warfare, but the rogues will only be 4 -which means it will be a lot more challenging for them and they are bound to get flanked by another group.
Someone is bound to leave cover and risk taking extra damage. Or the cover-to-cover movement can be used with HP regain talents during cover-to-cover moves. (There's a few talents that give you less damage taken and HP).
Basically you need to find ways to force the guys out of cover, with nades, seeker mines, sticky bombs.

First sorry for my English. 1 and 4 ...OK maybe its a good idea but what for? In my opinion its pointless. 2 and 4... I see that kind of situation: group of rogues, they killed a few people and then they run, find a good place with covers and what? you want to kill them and now, now is a problem if they strong and have a good tactic and they are in a good place. sometimes it's almost impossible to get them down. and with less damage and more damage taken? Use your imagination what will happen.

My friend, use your imagination. You use grenades, seeker mines to get them out of cover. When they are out of cover you shoot them. When there are 8 other players coming to them they have to run. When they run they take more damage. But you must also leave cover to chase them... So it's a lot better than running in circles. You use cover smartly and pay for being out of cover. This game is supposed to be cover based apparently.

[Force58]

It's really that simple... If you want people to take cover and be more careful you have to make them fear death.

Reduce armour.


Having played a squishy skillpower character since launch, my cover to cover, rolling skills and environmental awareness is superior to most anyone else. If you wanna see more tactical movement then force it.

I have 150k toughness, melt instantly against AB players stacking armour and firearms.... But can 1 shot them every 5 seconds.

Reduce armour. Bring the fear. Force tactical thinking. Make use of mobile cover style skills because of it. Better team bonds etc

I agree with Edea, if you want less armor, remove it from yourself and leave the rest of us alone. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling anyway.

[SKORPIQN]

Giving dmg bonuses to those in cover and reductions to those out really only does the same thing of reduced armour only reduced armour = less work required developer wise.

People say, "oh well what about this or that or seeker mines in cover" blah blah... Use your skills to counter. SmartCover for example and low armour doesn't make the seeker dmg greater... Its no different if you had 70% armour. You've all conditioned yourselves to focus on armour and not tactical movement or even exotic dmg resiliance... you've become dependant forgetting everything else thats available to you and just relying on booster shot, medkits and pulse to mitigate your LACK of skill. Thats why you always complain about seekers and sticky bombs and flame turrets because you cant surrender your armour for exotic res. Meanwhile smarter players are running 4x FM to good effect and Balistic shields in the DZ in teams and doing great.

Not enough thought put into your arguments.

Line of sight argument was good but you wont be lining up a headshot out of cover on someone in it.

Better fix the NPC accuracy problem first.

[Kobi_Blade]

Clearly OP hasn't played the game from Lv. 1 to Lv. 30 since the balance changes in 1.4.

He just another wannabe at Lv. 30 with best gear complaining he to strong, that's the point of being Lv. 30 with proper gear, to be strong.

[sandpants]

Giving dmg bonuses to those in cover and reductions to those out really only does the same thing of reduced armour only reduced armour = less work required developer wise.

It really isn't so cut and dry - cover is generally unreliable.

FYI TTBK was reduced in PvP in 1.5 coming out of 1.4 - I don't see people using cover more. If your hypothesis was correct we would see people use cover more, wouldn't we? Because the net effect of reducing Armor IS reducing TTBK too.

That's why cover needs explicit bonuses and clear advantages over being outside of it.

Furthermore, whilst Armor is mandatory, a lot of the tank that comes from players is mostly contributed by Critical Save and On The Move, not Armor alone. So TBH, there are too many loopholes within the damage system in general for Armor to be the only offender. Enormous damage resistance swings exist outside of Armor contribution and will continue to exist whether or not you reduce armor.


P.S. The effort required to putting stats in and out of cover isn't exactly demanding. The argument that "devs will require less work to do for X" needs to generally stop for any discussion, please - these people earn money doing this...

[Veldaz]

They don't need to reduce the armor. They just need to find a way to stop the endless running and rolling. Like adding a "stamina" bar. Once depleted, you will have to walk ( just like when you are slowed down by Predator mark ) / unable to roll and forced to cover till it's full again.

Yea, something like that can work as well. Perhaps some sort of balance between "a bit less armor" and "Forcing people into cover" or something too. So far the only things that really force us into cover are LMGs and snipers. But with the high armor... Hell, kill LMG/sniper trading off a bar of health or two, heal, carry on. Like nothing even happened.

Maybe we just need slower healing and having it be more effective while in cover or something.

[Corrupt.be]

While OP's solution is probably not the way to solve it, there's still this particular issue nearly a year after release. IMO:

• Aiming down sights needs to be way way more efficient vs hipfire
• The only class that should be excluded from this is the SMG class, provided their damage stays as low as it is

To do this I would start by first:

• Remove the talent "balanced" from the game
• Improve delay when going from hip to ADS in a static position
• Improve base accuracy (of first shot) when going into ADS while stationary
• Make this base accuracy also easier to achieve (which would make balanced redudant)
• Change spread/recoil based upon movement, both from the hip and ADS (even SMG's, but to a lesser extend)

This game needs to learn a lesson or 2 from titles like BF, CS, ... not that we should copy paste the PvP from that, but the gun mechanics (excluding gun balance, I'm talking movement vs accuracy) is something that just WORKS and is often applied to some degree to every single tactical shooter out there.

Counter Strike, while not having ADS (aim down sights), is a wonderful example (if not the best) of how movement should affect gun handling.

I also think it would be OK to experiment with more difficult gun handling overall (it's still easy as hell) and in exchange more damage. Essentially we'd miss more shots but also deal more damage per landed shot. This would need to be finetuned to preserve the RPG element of the game, but it could drastically improve to create a bigger skill ceiling in aim, recoil/spread handling and movement/tactics.

Afterwards, tone down the gun handling a bit for consoles: STOP TRYING TO MAKE GUN MECHANICS BETWEEN CONSOLE AND PC EQUAL FFS!!

And this last quote is not directed solely at Massive, so many devs are guilty of this, STOP IT, you're dumbing down any extra potential skill ceiling on PC with this and you're hindering the experience of console players as well as if you're expecting them to perform on par with a mouse/keyboard.