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It's a given that if you're going to play a game that has an online component, you're going to try it at some point even if the game's main strength is single player. If you dive into the multiplayer, you're expected to go play in a balanced arena where all weapons, characters, traits, skills, perks, etc do not overshadow another.
Take Destiny for example, not only does it have it's core strength which is the single player even if it did lack story in the beginning, but it also has PvP known as The Crucible.
The Crucible is where casual players go to play against other players. In The Crucible, the term: Power Matters is thrown out the window in favor of pure balance in which it doesn't matter if you're wearing max light armor or level 1 armor, all players absorb the same amount of damage and take the same amount of damage depending on the weapon class they're using.
A basic level 3 hand cannon can be matched up against epic hand cannons like Hawkmoon or The Last Word or any faction based hand cannon. Any weapons can be used and any armor can be worn and you won't be punished for it.
Then comes a different type of PvP that Destiny refers to as The Iron Banner. The Iron Banner is where everything matters, your light level, your DPS, your armor rating, etc. Power Matters in The Iron Banner. That same level 3 hand cannon you like using in The Crucible is a big no no as it won't be able to compete with Hawkmoon, The Last Word or any other high end hand cannon. Same goes for that level 3 armor you like to wear, you'll be one-shotted by a mosquito for that matter in The Iron Banner.
Or how about Battlefield or Call of Duty? Weapons all perform somewhat similar to one another, armor rating and DPS aren't factors at all, everyone takes the same amount of damage as well as dealing the same amount of damage depending on perks, skills, etc. that are equipped.
Even RE6: Siege has balanced PvP, no matter the weapon it only takes a couple shots to kill a player.
Then there's The Divisions PvP which is a straight up Power Matters mess of a PvP. It's littered with players who aren't actually there to PvP, rather they're just there to be asswipes ( much like some of the developers ). Can't recall how many times I came across a 4 man rogue group that literally laugh at killing a solo player who at this point is just trying to extract caches for dz credits, many of those rogue players have never heard of English either apparently.
The Dark Zone just completely feels tacked on, developers didn't put any real time into it. They said that the leaderboards will help encourage positivity, but the Dark Zone is anything but. I rarely come across a whole server where players just want to extract their caches and get out. Many of us just can't reach these 300K DPS, 400K toughness stats that some players go on about.
Hell I found a Banshee set that's pretty awful in stats and barely gives me 230K toughness but I use it just so that I don't lose whatever dz credits I get and I mostly farm credits the hard way by just killing NPC's. Even if I do come across a party, I'll still wear my ****ty banshee set, I only go in the DZ when I feel like wanting to complete the weekly assignment that involves killing NPC's in it and I rarely bother with the weekly assignment to begin with because of the DZ portion.
PvP needs alot of adjustments, leaderboards won't make things better, might make things worse. 1.6 isn't addressing the actual PvP mechanics that need some serious adjustments. Why should I be excited for DZ Leaderboards when it just going to tailor to a rather specific type of player ( yes, you should know what type of player I'm talking about ).
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"Take Destiny for example, not only does it have it's core strength which is the single player"
I disagree. Destiny's strength has always been its end game raid and group content. for a truly solo player destiny has very little to offer. ( I havent played the latest expansion so if that has an epic sweeping story campaign that you can play solo then I will concede that point)
"A basic level 3 hand cannon can be matched up against epic hand cannons like Hawkmoon or The Last Word or any faction based hand cannon. Any weapons can be used and any armor can be worn and you won't be punished for it."
Not true. There have always been balance issues in destiny. For the longest time the handcannon that gave you a DOT (forgotten its name, might have been Thorn) was THE weapon to have in PvP, forcing a severe nerf from bungie.
"Then comes a different type of PvP that Destiny refers to as The Iron Banner. The Iron Banner is where everything matters, your light level, your DPS, your armor rating, etc. Power Matters in The Iron Banner."
Agree to disagree, most of the complaints about iron banner that I have heard have been that power doesnt matter enough, and that basic weapons can still roll with the exotics depending on player skill.
"Or how about Battlefield or Call of Duty? Weapons all perform somewhat similar to one another, armor rating and DPS aren't factors at all, everyone takes the same amount of damage as well as dealing the same amount of damage depending on perks, skills, etc. that are equipped."
Are you seriously using battlefield and COD as an example of good balance? They arent even RPGs for a start.
"Even RE6: Siege has balanced PvP, no matter the weapon it only takes a couple shots to kill a player."
True, but there were still weapons and operators that eclipsed the others by far. Also not an RPG.
"Then there's The Divisions PvP which is a straight up Power Matters mess of a PvP. It's littered with players who aren't actually there to PvP"
Here's the fundamental misunderstanding. The Division doesn't HAVE a PvP mode as such. It has a PvE Mode that allows you to go bad and target your fellow players to try and get their loot.
rather they're just there to be asswipes ( much like some of the developers )"
And at this point you lose ALL credibility as far as I'm concerned. mindless childish insults invalidate any point you may think you have. This is not the way adults communicate.
"many of those rogue players have never heard of English either apparently."
So? The game is played all around the world, no where in the terms of use does it state that you have to speak english. Comments like this just make you look silly and a little bit xenophobic.
"I rarely come across a whole server where players just want to extract their caches and get out."
If that's all you want to do then I suggest another activity. there are far superior ways of aquiring loot to the dark zone, which have no chance of PvP whatsoever.
"I only go in the DZ when I feel like wanting to complete the weekly assignment that involves killing NPC's in it"
Then why the crypost?
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I agree the DZ is **** for PvP, so I don't go there. Why on Earth would you go to a PvP server and be pissed at players for killing you? If you do want to stand a chance then just watch some videos on how to build the same cookie cutter Alpha Bridge/Famas/LVOA **** that everyone's running.Originally Posted by Bluefoxx3 Go to original post
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I think the problem most have is the forced nature of the dz. To get certain weapons they only drop in the dz. Half of the weekly vendor reset is lost to you unless you play the dz. You have 2 types of gamers in division. Those that want to just play the game and experience the content. Those that get their kicks from pissing off fellow gamers. Now I am not saying these are the only two just the two biggest groups atm in this game.
Watch half the streamers who play this game. You often see them rolling up on a lone agent or smaller group when they have a group of 4 min maxed characters. More often then not they kill that smaller group and usually fire first.
Of course they save that 4v4 highlight for the youtube video but leave the steam rolling some poor guy who is just trying to farm some credits/rep or extract that item he found.
But that is the problem with this dz concept and at this point it is a pretty failed concept imo. They wanted this tension and watch your back type feel. But what they have created is a shoot on sight kill or be killed zone. They caused this by removing the massive rogue penelty. Without that negative to going rogue they broke their own concept. You can go into the dz act like a complete and utter ****** nozzle then walk out like everything is ok and go to the base of operations by the latest vendor item or blueprint. Hey are you that guy that killed 50 agents 2hrs ago. Ran around as a "rogue agent" for a couple hours murdering every other agent you saw? Yep oh cool just checking hey want to buy a weapon. Like the games morality they tried to create is a freaking etch a sketch. 3hrs of being a ****** and a quick shake everything is forgiven go about your day.
Without some form of consequences for people actions yoy get this complete and utter breakdown of any type of moral choice.
You want to go be a rogue ****** for a few hours fine but guess what don't expect the vendors to sell you anything for awhile. Hell the jtf should become hostile and shoot on sight costing you access to the BoO.
One thing I don't understand is the benifits to going this route. Example you go rogue slaughting people left and right. You not only have the BoO vendors but also have enough dz credits and rep to access everything the dz vendors sell....ok. but they guy you just spawn camped and hunted down costing him a few levels and a ton of dz credit basicly the guy you did everything you could to prevent them from accessing the same vendors and having the funds to use is actualy further punished because of what he lost trying to enter the dz.
Massives idea to fix this is a leader board......ok not really sure how that is going to reinforce positive actions. Not negative action aginst the rogue campers, ambushes and people who shoot you in the back after they wait for you to clear out some npc's. Bring back the massive loss of rep and funds for being killed while rogue and then dz might calm down and be less shoot on sight. Rogue agents should not be able to use the BoO vendors.....why would they see to a rogue agent when half the game was based around hunting one down and stopping him.
Bring in some massive consequences for rogue agents seperate dz rep into two different reputations one rogue one loyal agents. Each having access to unique items only they can access, buy or use.
Unique skins to give a more visible distinction. Oh watch out he has a rogue skin or its ok he is less likely to shoot he is in a agent skin.
Bring in some massive differences to being rogue and nonrogue.
Instead of seperating agents by gs and such why not seperate them by two distinctions this is a rogue this is a agent. When you go into a dz your more likely going to be put in a dz with other equally as blood thirsty types. Rogues with other rogues agents with other agents. It is not a pve only dz just seperate based on previous choices and actions. You like to go rogue and kill other agents then we will group you with equally as like-minded people. You don't like going rogue and only defend yourself when fired appon then you are grouped with other like-minded people.
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Predictable post filled with lies. Sorry, but repeating a mantra doesn't make it true, it takes it from being wrong to being a lie.Originally Posted by ichidakiller187 Go to original post
Exclusive items to the DZ are the ninja bike item which is bad in the PVP and useless in the DZ and the Tommy guns, which are bad too.
Then you go on with the usual PVP-players hating tirade which is boring, old, and wrong.
You want more PVE content? We all do. Don't want to step inside the ONLY PVP activity in the game? You don't need to.
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Another poster confirmed he got the Hog in a cache. So that one's off the list.Originally Posted by ichidakiller187 Go to original post
So yeah, no. Your issues with loot could've been legit back in 1.2. Now? You're just complaining for the sake of it.
The DZ has received nothing new since 1.1, supply drops. In the meantime PVE activities have boomed with the addition of Incursions, Challenging Missions, UG, Survival, S&D, HVTs, LZ Bosses. But STILL you complain about the DZ. I'm so bored of these threads and the 4/5 posters who keep saying the same boring stuff and repeating the same mantras. No, the DZ is a PVP area, it just so happens you can do a bit of PVE in it, but it's not the best source of loot and it's got very little in terms of exclusive items. That Ninja bike messenger bag would be a killer in PVE, I can see why you'd want one.
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If you really think caches are a good source of named weapons then you obviously haven't seen the insanely low drop rate of named items from caches. Yeah another poster said on the Internet that you can get it from a cache omg do go on let me go update the wiki because JohnRambo14273424 said it is true so it must be.
That aside what about the vendors.
Ok let me explain new person buys the game. They don't understand minmaxing, proper stat placement to compliment your build etc.
With how easy it is to aquire 256 items in this game it is possible to go hit 256 gs withen days of the game and that's just a weekend for some. The problem with this is that they are now tossed in with other 256 players in the dz you know the ones who have spent weeks minmaxing and have a set team. Now this person wants to step into the dz. They are rank 1 just stepping foot into the dz. Now this person will be often steam rolled, camped and butchered by a rogue group in pvp. Never allowing them to actually progress into the levels as they just keep being killed over and over by min maxed groups running the flavors of the month op builds aka alphabridge as of right now.
This person is facing a long uphill struggle to rank up enough to have access to these vendors. All the blueprints, set peices and weapons. While the Rogue conterparts can sit there kill till they are bored and have access to all the vendors in the game. So you have one group who is already often times rank 99 actively preventing this other group from achieving any real progression. Yet you call this "pvp".
See people like you who are of the camp of the dz is a pvp area if you don't like pvp then stay out types. But it is not. It is a pvpve area pve and pvp mixed where killing npc is vital to extractions and rank progression. As well as the pvp side of hunting rogue agents or being rogue yourself.
The problem is one side is actively punished while rogue have zero punishment atm. You step into the dz you will be killed you will lose rep and dz funds. But to the pvp crowd that is of little consequence atm because they have enough funds and rep to not worry about it. While the other group is kept down.
Think of it like one person is trying to learn to swim while another person is actively trying to drown them. Not a very inviting experience for the person on the receiving end.
Because of the broken balancing, flawed stat design, and overall generally poor and often misleading stats the new person is left with a massive learning curve it isn't something as simple as being more skilled then someone else and practicing. This game has a cycle of abusing what ever is broken or op atm to get a leg up on your enemy.
That is a flawed design. With zero punishment aimed at rogue agents all the burden falls to the non-rogue agents. Most times rogue don't even look at your loot that you dropped they just kill you for the sake of killing. It wasn't designed this way or with that idea in mind. They wanted the tension to come from extracting loot, not knowing if other agents were going to show up to try to take your items. Now agents are showing up just to kill you not caring about the items.
It has become shoot on sight, kill everything that moves, using broken sets, op weapons and unbalanced skills. Using these to abuse other players just for the sake of keeping them from ranking up, getting loot or trying to find that item they want.
