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  1. #1

    What can Ubi do to make PvP more enjoyable for all?

    I would like to start by saying this is not a post about a PvE only DZ and not a post about how solo players get picked on etc.

    Thanks to anyone who takes time to read this and thanks to the Devs for what I think is an awesome game all things considered.

    In the most recent SOTG, they announced they will be undertaking a re-balancing exercise focused on PvP having been primarily focused on making the game playable again and the loot system in patch 1.4/5.

    Personally I believe the PvP element within this game needs more than just re-balancing and with the introduction of the new PvP focused Elite Task Force in January I wanted to add my suggestions and invite suggestions from others on how they could change the concept of PvP to make it better.

    Here goes...

    PvP Mode
    1) I think that the PvP part of the game should be 'instanced', for want of a better phrase, in the same way that the Survival Mode is now. Upon entering the DZ players would be put into a session with x number of other people. This would still be banded by gear score and ability. The measure of ability would become Lifetime PvP Kills (as killing players would be the sole objective in the new PvP mode) to ensure that you are always sharing games with people of a similar standard / level of enthusiasm as you.
    2) Each game should have a time limit say 20-30 mins max.
    3) There would be a separate mode for solo players for groups of 4 only.

    Gameplay
    1) There would be no NPCs to kill, no caches to find lying around, and the only source of loot would be killing other players
    2) I would remove access to the map and mini map completely.
    3) Extractions would no longer be player driven events and would happen in random locations at fixed time intervals through the PvP session. I would say three to 5 extractions during a session would be enough
    4) Respawning would be forced but would be at random, game chosen locations across the whole map. There would be lots of spawn points to prevent spawn camping.
    5) There would be no rope cutting during extractions

    Loot
    1) Upon killing another player, the loot that drops would be a copy of one or more piece of the dead player's equipped gear. Loot collected from other players would be lost on death rather than dropped. Gear drops would need to be extracted as normal.
    2) Dropped loot would disappear a short while (say 60 seconds) after it drops.
    3) DZ funds would remain and would still be used at the DZ checkpoint vendors.
    4) As safe houses are gone, the safe house vendor stock would be merged into the check point vendors that would still exist.
    5) DZ Exp would be used to generate DZ Caches in the same way as you get Field Proficiency Caches for PvE.

    I have also included some reasoning behind why I think the above ideas would work
    1) Although everyone knows the current DZ is a PvP enabled area, completely delineating the PvP and PvE areas of the game would mean that everyone in the new DZ would be there because they want to PvP. They know everyone they see can be killed and will try to kill them and they accept that. Originally it would have been a problem due to the loot system but after 1.4 there is no requirement to step foot in the DZ to gear up, unless you want to.
    2) Splitting the solo and group play would also contribute to stopping the 'I got picked on in the DZ' issue. Although I do appreciate that 4 solo players could still Discord together and coordinate to some extent, there would be no group bonuses, no loot sharing etc. so even assuming they all managed to get in the same game there would be little to no benefit from playing in solo mode over playing a group mode where all the above were enabled. Another common argument is, 'if you don't like playing solo and getting ganked then get in a group' but not everyone can or wants to be in a group all the time and it gives people a choice.
    3) Making a loot timer would stop people 'stashing' loot by leaving it on the floor and coming back for it later.
    4) Allowing players to pick up other players gear is a good way of spreading the RNG love.

    Well there goes.

    I look forward to some feedback and thanks again for reading if you got this far!
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  2. #2
    sandpants's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by residentevil83 Go to original post
    I
    1) Upon killing another player, the loot that drops would be a copy of one or more piece of the dead player's equipped gear. Loot collected from other players would be lost on death rather than dropped. Gear drops would need to be extracted as normal.
    Gear printing and homogenization of builds. No.

    1) Although everyone knows the current DZ is a PvP enabled area, completely delineating the PvP and PvE areas of the game would mean that everyone in the new DZ would be there because they want to PvP. They know everyone they see can be killed and will try to kill them and they accept that. Originally it would have been a problem due to the loot system but after 1.4 there is no requirement to step foot in the DZ to gear up, unless you want to.
    There is absolutely no good reason for anyone not to think this exact thing right now with the current DZ. PvP enabled is literally spelled out. You don't go into the DZ if it doesn't mean you are not prepared to get into a PvP fight...
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  3. #3
    Turis8's Avatar Senior Member
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    PvP would be fine once we have unified rogue timers on groups (no non-hostile+rogue bs groups) and hipfire accuracy is put on the level where one simply does even think about hipfiring anymore - I mean serious debuffs to accuracy. We need long range and cover based combat on pvp - not this running clown **** we have now.
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  4. #4
    's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by residentevil83 Go to original post
    PvP Mode
    1) I think that the PvP part of the game should be 'instanced', for want of a better phrase, in the same way that the Survival Mode is now. Upon entering the DZ players would be put into a session with x number of other people. This would still be banded by gear score and ability. The measure of ability would become Lifetime PvP Kills (as killing players would be the sole objective in the new PvP mode) to ensure that you are always sharing games with people of a similar standard / level of enthusiasm as you.
    So skill based matchmaking? That's one reason why even the pros hate Call of Duty.

    Originally Posted by residentevil83 Go to original post
    2) Each game should have a time limit say 20-30 mins max.
    Not sure why you'd put a time limit on PVP, since it's not a game mode.


    Originally Posted by residentevil83 Go to original post
    4) Respawning would be forced but would be at random, game chosen locations across the whole map. There would be lots of spawn points to prevent spawn camping.
    You've just made time to action even worse.

    Originally Posted by residentevil83 Go to original post
    Loot
    1) Upon killing another player, the loot that drops would be a copy of one or more piece of the dead player's equipped gear.
    Ehh, that's a bit extreme and strays away from originality.
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  5. #5
    I quit PvPing about 10 years ago, because I am not the youngest anymore. I simply do not feel the same excitement I used to feel 10 years ago, when I was playing competitive. Nowadays I like a third person open world game with a good story, choices and consequences.

    Nowadays I detest PvP and I consider them the hostile faction / enemy. Because of all the Drama in the Dark Zone and all the experience I had my share of, I simply do not enter the Dark Zone anymore, which means I have to take the longer route in order to get the pieces of gear I desire. So I let the angry Kinds beat the hell out of each other... until Massive implements a PvE only Option for the Dark Zone.

    I would even pay for another Season Pass if it's the only way to get it.

    Have a good one.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Aaron_Clover Go to original post
    PvP would be fine once we have unified rogue timers on groups (no non-hostile+rogue bs groups) and hipfire accuracy is put on the level where one simply does even think about hipfiring anymore - I mean serious debuffs to accuracy. We need long range and cover based combat on pvp - not this running clown **** we have now.
    I totally agree with this point. One of my main frustrations about this game is that it is supposed to be a cover based tactical shooter and PvP does not reflect that in any way right now and never has IMHO.
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  7. #7
    All great feedback and ideas. Definetly something's that need tweaking.

    Biggest thing you said that jumps at me is the PVP needs to be instanced just like Survival with comparable gear sets and stats - sorry the idea of RPG PVP if that's a word, simply doesn't work and there needs to be serious balancing to make fun and enjoyable. I don't play destiny but it has this type of PVP and I guess every so often they have a mode where people can take in their gear they've collected to fight.

    Again, if you enter the PVP realm, there needs to be pros and cons to load out but ultimately a equal opportunity based on skill, cover to cover mechanics, and abilities.

    Murphee - I agree with some points but can you state some of your ideas? You seem to have a good idea of a good PVP game but I'd love to hear your ideas.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    So skill based matchmaking? That's one reason why even the pros hate Call of Duty.



    Not sure why you'd put a time limit on PVP, since it's not a game mode.




    You've just made time to action even worse.



    Ehh, that's a bit extreme and strays away from originality.
    Thanks for reading and for the feedback.
    1) I have played a fair amount of Warcraft PvP in previous years and although I was not particularly good at it I enjoyed playing it because the majority of the time you played against people who were a similar level to you and as a result most of the time it felt competitive. As you got more skilled you played better players until you found a level where your ability limited your progress. I suppose my aim is to allow players to find their level somehow so the experience is good and challenging for everyone as often as possible, not just the elite or people who can throw many more hours a day at the game than others can. On reflection lifetime kills is probably not the answer at all as it just reflects how long you have been playing the game (a bit like DZ level currently does) but maybe some kind of rethink of the ranking system is the answer.
    2) My main proposal here was that PvP became a mode. From a players perspective they would still run into a DZ checkpoint as they do now and they would still get put into one of the many servers as they do now but the idea is to force the action along and force confrontation with the game timer and the regular extractions rather than how it is at the moment where sometimes you can't move for rogues and firefights but sometimes you can trot around merrily not fighting anyone except NPCs for ages and extract unopposed. I often go into the DZ by myself with full knowledge that it is a PvP area mainly to farm loot and get PC from the NPCs. I leave all my loot on the ground if farming and go back when its quiet to pick up the pieces I want to extract. If I get shot and killed whether by better solo players or bigger groups it doesn't bother me but in its current form it doesn't engage me either. I want to be able to focus on PvP like you can in other games like COD, Destiny and WoW.
    3) I think you could effectively control time to action by reducing the size of the DZ map appropriately. This would obviously require a lot of balancing but maybe the area you fight in is only the size of DZ05/6 for example. I do agree that TTA is a very important factor for an engaging PvP experience
    4) This is a valid point and maybe not ideal but given all the gear is RNG anyway, is there a massive difference? Although it is not as bad as it used to be in the past where players would all go for the MP5 or Vector for example (and if you didn't use one you may as well not have bothered coming to the party), in a hypothetical situation, two players of equal skill could be differentiated by RNG which doesn't feel right. Again in Warcraft everyone would have the same armour for a certain spec so players were differentiated mainly by skill level, character class and teamwork and a lot less of it was down to gear. Besides, the piece of gear the player drops would not necessarily fit in with your spec so may not be useful in the same way as a random drop may not be. Finally it is the Devs job to ensure that the different specs and gear sets are as balanced as possible to keep genuine choice within the game? At the moment 99% of gear people use comes from killing NPCs or buying gear at vendors using items or currency farmed mainly from killing NPCs which is pretty PvE in my book.
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  9. #9
    For me, I might engage in PvP in the Division if it was like this:

    1) No gankmode PvP. I'm not there to mess with someone else's progress. The most progress I'd like to interrupt is an increase in the opponent's K/D.

    2) Yellow gear only (no gear set bonuses).

    3) Team v. Team game modes (either 4 v 4, or 8 v 8). They could be control-type, kill-confirmed type, bounty hunt, whatever. More traditional PvP modes.

    4) Enforce tactical play. Enforce the use of cover (e.g., if you're out of cover, you take 2x normal damage, no matter what). No SMG Breakdance Fighting, but actual fire & movement.

    5) Very limited healing. For instance, healing by medkit only, and you can only carry 1, up to 2 with PvP gear. Otherwise, healing happens using the normal slow crawl healing when you're out of combat.

    6) Minions are an option (like in Titanfall, having some easily -- EASILY -- dropped NPC enemies as random hazards might be fun)

    7) Awards at the end of the match - drops caches, etc.; better odds for the winning team but both teams have a chance for loot.
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  10. #10
    LIke that OP is thinking about it. I would give this a shot if it was available.
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