Monthly Forum Discussion - Dec 2016 [Favorite Bikes] | Forums

[xitooner]

Just coming from a different perspective... how many of you complaining about the existence of the KTM as a tier 1 bike have top 100 leader board times? How many in the top 200? I ask because I don't. My best time is on underground slopes and it was a fluke run that put me in the top 800ish area. I have all bikes except the stallion and agent and I like the KTM. From an average riders perspective, you guys have a 1%er problem that the overwhelming majority of players don't care about.

We all want to be good riders but thats not entirely what this is all about . . . its about us having played many hours, and knowing what motivated us to DO that... and us wanting to improve the game to motivate more people. RL will make more money by making us play the game more. . .and they can only lose when we lose interest and move on. Even the "average" people still want to be entertained as much as possible. . . we are trying to point out what RL can do to make their game more appealing to more people.

Its like this; my doctor wants me to walk 2 miles a day. I can plan out multiple routes and keep it interesting... or I can circle my house 500 times. Same distance either way. If I circle my house.... I'll get bored and stop in a week or two. If I had multiple places to go.. new things to see and strive for... I'll keep it up and ultimately be happier.. a win/win.

The KTM is a decent-enough bike.. not the issue. But RL had a choice to ADD to the game and my enjoyment by giving me new LBs with those new legendary bikes. I could have played on one LB and have great competition... then move to the other on and have slightly different competition. More places to compare myself versus others, etc....more fronts to compete on keeps me busy... it would be better. Instead they SUBTRACTED from my interest in the game by erasing my past accomplishments with older bikes ...with a new bike on the same LB. I lost effort/time... am basically fighting to "stay in place" on tier1 LB (been there, done that). . . my interest is lower... I leave the game. All because RL made me "circle the house" instead of giving me new ways to measure/challenge myself (which I would have thought was the main purpose of the game?)

This isnt theoretical; its fact. I was a high-level player (by most standards) at one time. My downward spiral in interest in this game STARTED with the KTM LB ISSUE. I felt like a lab rat, and RL was just changing up the maze to see if I would be stupid enough to chase the cheese one more time. (Then they put the nail in the coffin by trying to force me to play the bunker that I hate to play.. but thats another story).

Now-a-days, I visit the forums 1-2 times a week, and dont play the game any more (I have better games now, but not better forums to visit) I made it half-way through the Tier1 tracks with KTM tracks before I got bored. I have 12+ new tracks now I dont even bother playing... I just casually collect them (except for the bunker-reward ones). If my interest rekindles and I play them at all one day... I'll only play donkey to Plat and skip Tier1 bikes. And ..... I see a lot of people I knew as good top players falling down the LB ranks with me. I'm not alone.

Now we are about to get a new Legendary Tier2 bikes and unless things changed another round of people will go through what I did. They may not quit tomorrow... it took me a while...but their downward spiral will be starting. Maybe we'll learn from history this time....

[hanks420]

Xitooner, I can see where you're coming from, but I still see it differently.

I was psyched to finally get the KTM. Again, I've never had a top 100 time so I had nothing to lose when the KTM got here only something to gain.

The KTM vastly improved most of my tier 1 times with only a few exceptions where I'm faster on the bronco. It gave me a reason to go back and tackle every track again to see if I could beat my old times. My times are still crappy, but they're a little less crappy on the KTM.

Right now my favorite bike is the donkey, fwiw it's also my newest bike and the only one that isn't 10/10/10/10. If I get another new bike, it will probably become my new favorite as I get bored doing the same grind with the same bike over and over.

[dutscher-DE]

my favorite bike is the berserker and donkey.
the berserker has so much power and the donkey is so much fun

cheers

[hikasrams]

My favorite is Berserker.
There could be a poll on OP.

Again, I've never had a top 100 time so I had nothing to lose when the KTM got here only something to gain.
The KTM vastly improved most of my tier 1 times with only a few exceptions where I'm faster on the bronco. It gave me a reason to go back and tackle every track again to see if I could beat my old times. My times are still crappy, but they're a little less crappy on the KTM.

Do you feel good that you climbed several positions up on LB beating guys that have done tracks using worse characteristics bike Tango?

[hanks420]

My favorite is Berserker.
There could be a poll on OP.


Do you feel good that you climbed several positions up on LB beating guys that have done tracks using worse characteristics bike Tango?

I don't even think about it. I'm happy that I was able to get platinum on tracks where I only had gold. I care about beating my own previous times, who else I pass is irrelevant to me. Personally I'd like every bike to have its own leaderboard so I could try to improve my times on all bikes.

I certainly don't feel guilty or bad about it, I didn't hack the game for an advantage that no one else had. I raced the tracks with the bikes available to me. It's like me asking you if you feel good that you have more tracks available to you to raise your spot. You didn't get there because of an unfair advantage, you got there with the resources RL gave you.

[justinman114]

Xitooner, I can see where you're coming from, but I still see it differently.

I was psyched to finally get the KTM. Again, I've never had a top 100 time so I had nothing to lose when the KTM got here only something to gain.

The KTM vastly improved most of my tier 1 times with only a few exceptions where I'm faster on the bronco. It gave me a reason to go back and tackle every track again to see if I could beat my old times. My times are still crappy, but they're a little less crappy on the KTM.

Right now my favorite bike is the donkey, fwiw it's also my newest bike and the only one that isn't 10/10/10/10. If I get another new bike, it will probably become my new favorite as I get bored doing the same grind with the same bike over and over.

This is a placebo. Your times are better because you are using a better bike. If, in theory, everyone decided to use the bike as well, and improve their times, then you'd be in the same exact boat. Your skill level is your skill level. I'm not saying you are bad or good, or that I am either. But saying you were able to improve your times because of an OP bike that obviously beats everyone on the LB who didn't use that bike, is, well, obvious.

[Ch4er0n]

It's like you're me in an alternative universe where I'm much better at formulating my opinions, so I'll just quote you.



Especially this. One of my favorite things in the game is trying to find new timesavers, or turning agile bike tracks into speed bike tracks. Exploring possible timesavers etc. This part of the game takes a huge hit when the default best bike for 90% of tracks will be whatever KTM bike is for that tier.

haha thanks mate <3

[hanks420]

This is a placebo. Your times are better because you are using a better bike. If, in theory, everyone decided to use the bike as well, and improve their times, then you'd be in the same exact boat. Your skill level is your skill level. I'm not saying you are bad or good, or that I am either. But saying you were able to improve your times because of an OP bike that obviously beats everyone on the LB who didn't use that bike, is, well, obvious.

And this is exactly where the KTM haters start talking out of both sides of their mouth.

1) leaderboard position is important.
2) the KTM makes setting leaderboard times easy.
3) it would be too hard to take the easy bike and reclaim a leaderboard position.

Despite not making sense, 3 is just 1+2.

If you like the game and like leaderboard chases, play the game with the new bike and reclaim your spot. If you don't feel like doing that then the leaderboard isn't as important to you as you claim it is.

If your saying it would take too much effort, then saying the KTM makes it easy really isn't the truth either.

There are plenty of people above me and below me on the leaderboards who set their records with the exact same bike I did so the playing field is level on the bike side and the rankings sort themselves out with skill and in my case luck.


I know no one will admit it but it's change, people just hate change that they can't control.

[xitooner]

If your saying it would take too much effort, then saying the KTM makes it easy really isn't the truth either.

You make good points; I think that there IS an unsaid truth here that is relevant. IMO, the "real truth" behind most top LB scores is this:

Top scores in Frontier (on any bike) is much more about dedication/luck than it is about skill.

There are just a handful of people who can consistently take any unknown track and make a top run quickly/easily; those people have undeniable skill. For the rest of us poor souls. . .we are good/talented, but to truly be in the top 100 of a LB with 1 million+ players like Tier1 has.... you cant really be JUST skillful. You have to make 100/1000+ runs (HOURS of time/effort) per track, learning all of its subtle twists, and then in a sudden flash of glory we make that REALLY LUCKY run where it all comes together just right, and break the top 100. (and that handful of truly skillful guys? Well, they spend those hours too.. to raise the bar that much higher).

Eventually our best run is there for all to see. Do it on enough tracks, and it looks like skill to everyone... and we might allow ourselves to be convinced that it is. But no.. if it took 100+ runs... if I cant consistently repeat time that a month later with no practice .... "skill" isnt the real word for it.

Then a new (faster) bike comes along, and other guys can get beyond where you got before... with less time/effort/skill. The rules changed, and its do-over time. We all know in our hearts that its going to take more hours of ... work... to get back to your previous LB position. On every track.

1) leaderboard position is important.
2) the KTM makes setting leaderboard times easy.
3) it would be too hard to take the easy bike and reclaim a leaderboard position.
Despite not making sense, 3 is just 1+2.

That unspoken (but very real) time/effort I described above is what the "too hard to take the easy bike" phrase really refers to. 3 = 1+2+massive effort. Thats where KTM hit hardest.

The irony of which is... on a new LB, established players would have been happy to put in those additional 100s of hours again; its a new frontier and didnt invalidate the old efforts. Its the knowledge that all my previous massive effort over the last 2 years is lost (and the knowledge that RL might come back and do this again any time they want) that really kills the motivation where KTM is concerned. KTM could have been a sure-fire new reason to play; instead its an equally good reason to stop playing. Its all fairly basic gaming psychology really... does RL not understand what motivates/demotivates players, or does this demotivation really not affect the monetary bottom-line as much as you'd think? I dunno.

[justinman114]

And this is exactly where the KTM haters start talking out of both sides of their mouth.

1) leaderboard position is important.
2) the KTM makes setting leaderboard times easy.
3) it would be too hard to take the easy bike and reclaim a leaderboard position.

Despite not making sense, 3 is just 1+2.

If you like the game and like leaderboard chases, play the game with the new bike and reclaim your spot. If you don't feel like doing that then the leaderboard isn't as important to you as you claim it is.

If your saying it would take too much effort, then saying the KTM makes it easy really isn't the truth either.

There are plenty of people above me and below me on the leaderboards who set their records with the exact same bike I did so the playing field is level on the bike side and the rankings sort themselves out with skill and in my case luck.


I know no one will admit it but it's change, people just hate change that they can't control.

Believe me, if I had the time of day to keep grinding tracks I already put hundreds of hours into, I would. I like playing this game, and I enjoy the competition and the community. The problem is, I don't have the time of day to do that. A lot of people don't. I know, that's a ME problem, but it also is a RL problem. The leaderboards have way less integrity than they should already, and this just nullifies all the "old-school" rider runs. I remember a lot of riders who retired and still had top times that could be seen months, and even over a year after they last played. Now those just get shoveled away.

I understand both points of view and this is the side I am on. Creating a separate leaderboard would have not introduced this issue, and would still be something people would want to play. Even just making it so the bike could only be used on tracks released AFTER its release would have worked just fine. In fact, that would have worked the best, as all of us 'butthurt' about it wouldn't be, and would welcome the new bike. If that makes sense.