Lengthy Beta Feedback - with arguments and reasoning and stuff! | Forums

[P4NCH0theD0G]

I spent about 30 hours in the Beta this weekend, rode around a lot, did that stupid Extreme Squirrel Challenge and found out that you can use the helicopter to enter the closed-off areas, only to be forced to the map as soon as you move. I figured out that the Right Stick determines where you grab with your hands during a jump, but canNOT be used to bone a grab. I spent so much time in the half-pipe to make me kinda forget how to jump (it's weird, really).
So yes, I played a lot. I really like it.

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First, the basic stuff that you cannot change anymore before release:

Graphics are fine.
Sound is fine, even if the flapping noises are kinda annoying in Go-Pro-View and I wished that riders wouldn't say something "funny" after every single wipe-out, as those get repetitive really quick.
Animations are fine, even if slow slaloming could be more fluid in transition.
Physics seem fine, too, even if the G-Force thing needs some time to get used to.
The replay mode is amazing, the fact that you can actually go through all your rides of the day is crazy good It still has a few issues, though.
"Try Again" might be even better. Even after a 10 Minute ride it takes maybe two seconds to get me back up the mountain
The only thing that is kind of a shame is that you cannot run and then jump off with your wingsuit, and that you cannot wingsuit directly from your paraglide.

Now, to the meaty part.


Controls: Iffy subject

The Good:

Once you figure them out, from smoothly riding down a small incline to barreling down a steep slope to the spinning (including the stylish slow-spin) while jumping to the slow-sliding, drifting stance-switch while riding to the gliding and wing-suit evading, they feel great. Intuitive. In fact, the more I thought about them, trying to do specific tricks, the worse I played.

The Bad:

But ONLY once you figure them out, because the instructions are minimal to the point of frustrating. And I found no way to just look at the controls or the control tips explained somewhere. Yes, there's that little jump tutorial that always reappears when you do the connected challenge, but that is so extremely basic, it's not a factor. Actually, I am still not sure what influence the flicking of the left stick before landing has, since I didn't have enough time to read the tip while doing the challenge and it never reappeared.

Another thing is the seeming inconsistency. It's strange, but sometimes you feel like you've done the exact same thing twice, but with wildly different results. For example, while riding I can do a "standing" back flip or cork-flip if I press R2 again right after letting it go, but if I do the same thing without the second tap of R2 somehow I don't have the height?

Also, using R2 and L2 for grabs while in the air seems confusing and kinda unnecessary, since, apparently, R1 and L1 are not used at all? Why not use them instead of putting more on the triggers? Sure, if might be about the "feeling", but especially something like the half-pipe gets very taxing on your fingers - and a bit confusing.

There also seems to be an issue with Sharing on the PS4: When you press the share button and the menu pops up, then you press Square to save your video, the Square-press is registered in game, resulting in A LOT of unwanted group-invites.

The Solution:
(at least for learning the controls)

A better tutorial. Specifically concerning landing controls and in-the-air controls. I know that you have some control in the air, but I DON`T know what they are (or why my rider sometimes does a really late 180°).

Barring that, if the intention is to make people "learn" how to ride (which I think would be a great approach but people need to KNOW that) what about an option to show your inputs during a replay so you see what you did where and how you did it.


Camera - in the way

The Good:

Mostly it works fine. It's a bit annoying that you cannot direct it while riding, but it makes sense, and I do prefer the right stick being used for drifting and stance-switching instead of freeing up the right stick to move the camera by putting the drift on R1 and L1. But mostly it works fine.

The Bad:

Sadly, a lot of the times, the camera seems too close and when the angle of the slope you're riding is just right (or rather, just wrong), your rider blocks the view of what lies ahead. The Forester Challenge (Medium Checkpoint Race) is a prime example of not being able to see where you're going, because your rider is in the way.

And no, Go-Pro view is really not useful at all when the going gets a bit rougher. It might be "realistic", but the brain does a lot to compensate for jitter and shakes, and Go-Pro is really too bumpy to use in anything but paragliding, "easy" wing-suiting, and very smooth rides.

The Solution:

You should have either a few camera distances/angles you could cycle through by clicking the Right Stick or just refine the code that determines camera distance and angle - because sometimes, it move further back and a bit higher to give you a better view, but there are too many times, where that doesn't happen.

Smooth out the Go-Pro view. A lot.


The HUD - Cluttered

The Good:

Not much.

The Bad:

It's cluttered. There`s too much stuff on screen, often making it hard to see where you want to go. Even worse, other players' icons are superimposed over everything. You try to do the Extreme Squirrel when you cannot see the trees in front of you because three other people are trying the challenge and all you see is their level and name.

The Solution:

More options to let us determine what shows on our HUD. ESPECIALLY an option to turn off the markers of other players, at least during challenges.
Furthermore, the challenge inserts overlayed on the screen when you're close need to be smaller up close, or be a lot more transparent. I had several instances of being unable to see how to get to a challenge up close because it took up half the screen.
Also, and I will pick this up further down, objectives need to be smaller or transparent or in some way take up LESS SCREENSPACE. The Introduction Mission Objective and the many tips made it very hard to see and the objectives wouldn't disappear until you finished them.


GUI - workable

The Good:

It's functional, even if slow to respond at times - and I do wonder, why so many Menus now look and feel like Destiny. And I do wish you could control your cursor via the touchpad on PS4.

The Bad:

The Bad only concerns the map.
First, if your camera is set to an inverted y-axis, the map camera should be inverted, too. It's a small thing, but it's driving me crazy.
Second, there needs to be a button or action (like holding down R3 while on the map) to erase ALL your flags. If you try to set a perfect line for an open challenge (like the Salomon Orientation challenge) you set a lot of flags - that you don't need anymore once the challenge is over, but it takes FOREVER to delete each flag one by one.

The Solution:

The Map camera y-axis should be linked to the in-game camera.
A way to delete all flags - preferably, only the flags on the screen, so you can save others, or have a way to "lock" a flag so it can only be deleted after unlocking it.


Replay - Nice!

The Good:

Pretty much everything. Being able to have replays of all your daily rides - Nice!

The Bad:

Being unable to switch from medium slow-mo to regular speed without going through full slow-mo.
Being unable to switch between cameras without going through each.
No "Go to beginning" button (that I found).
Replay doesn`t automatically pause when rewinding or fast-forwarding.

The Solution:

Better control options for the replay, like speed-up/slow-down instead of toggling through the speeds.
Possibly dedicated buttons for the different camera views
A "Got to beginning" button


The Tutorial Missions - Please make it stop

The Good:

I can't remember.

The Bad:

I also cannot remember the last time that I hated introductory missions in a game so much.
The voice actors is horrible. He sounds like a 60 year-old trying to be cool. He is not. Do a Din.kelbot, please. (that's a Destiny reference, referring to replacing a voice actor and acting like the one who was there before never actually was there, at all)
The objectives that do not disappear from the screen until you finish them. It clogs up the screen, making it really hard to see anything. The only reason I did the missions first was that I wanted to be able to SEE again and have them disappear. Add to that the very big, very not-transparent tips and you can barely see where to go.

The Solution:

Complete Overhaul.


The Music - Really. Make it Stop.

The Good:

A few okay-ish songs. Especially the one for the Salomon Orientation Challenge fits perfectly - even if I don't like it much by itself, it fits.

The Bad:

So many bad songs. Pop songs. Something that sounds like a Dancefloor number from the 90s ("She looks really hot tonight. I guess it wasn't meant to be..."). It's not "Lords of the Boards" bad, but close. I wish there was a way to let the Steep integrate my own music and do playlists from that, because I cannot and will not listen to that stuff. I might be out of touch with what the extreme sports crowd listens to, right now, I stopped skating and snowboarding years ago, but... I was hoping for some Bad Religion, Sublime, Pennywise. Not Pop Radio.

And if the songs weren't bad enough, they switch up every time you restart a challenge. If you heard a song for 10 seconds, there`s no need to restart it when you "Try Again". On the one hand, yes, I am grateful to only have to listen to the first 10 seconds of a bad song, but I have had to listen to those 10 seconds SO often.

The Solution:

Get better Music.
Allow people to use their own music in playlists for Steep.
An option to let songs continue when you "Try Again" a challenge instead of switching to a new one.


Technicalities - Buggy or Glitchy?

The Bad:

Pop-ins:
Every once in a while, the pop-ins go crazy, with copses of trees (not just one or two) appearing out of pixelated magic dust about 30 meters in front of you, most when going at high-speed. The funny thing, though, it doesn't happen all the time,even on the same slope under the same conditions.

Geometry problems:
Nets or low roofs that you can kinda get stuck beneath are notorious for getting caught underneath and due to the force they exert on your character, you cannot stop and start walking.
Similarly, there are several areas (mostly in towns) you can reach by jumping or falling that you cannot get out of. Sure, you can just go to Mountain View and teleport, but it's still annoying.


Socially Suggestive - Vote on my Line!

Suggestion:
Maybe I didn't see it or understand it right, but I thought it often a shame I could not share more lines with other people - not as a competition, but just as a "Take a look over here". Wouldn't it be nice, if you could share a few more lines, label them (Freestyle, Freeride, Extreme etc) and let other people vote on them? Of course, there needs to be some restrictions on how many of those lines you could see.
Or maybe have a system that would label areas according to the dominant activity people do there, like: "The community thinks this is a good free-riding area", denoted by shading the area in the appropriate color.


Final Verdict - Great Experience eliciting Mixed Feelings

It's been a very long time since little stuff had me spending so much time on it. It's reminiscent of long nights playing Tony Hawk's Pro Skater on the old Playstation, perfecting lines. Steep is bigger, possibly even better. It's addictive, meditative, relaxing, but also frustrating at times. Having to find out the controls by myself was a learning process I din't specifically mind, but some of them are still a mystery - and not everyone will be so patient. The screen seems to be too cluttered with stuff, with no option to turn it off or make it smaller. The music is not what I thought extreme sports music would be, especially the snowboarding crowd (but I'm old and out of touch, maybe I'm wrong).
The big picture is great, beautiful, mesmerizing. But there are still a lot of small flaws that stand out like yellow snow.

But overall, I really like it a lot

[P4NCH0theD0G]

So, seems that I was wrong with a couple of things:

First, you CAN bone (or tweak) your grabs using the right stick, but you have to move it in a different direction than the one you had it in to position your grab. So Right Stick direction, hold L2/R2, hold different Right Stick direction. This is getting complicated.

I also found out you can do actual flips with your snowboard (not just barrel rolls) by moving the right stick forwards or backwards at take-off. Which makes things even more complicated, but also adds a lot of depth and variety.

Furthermore, there might or might not be a way to play your own music, but at least you can turn off the music in the sound menu by turning of "play copyrighted music". Not sure why "copyrighted" is in there, but maybe it's a legal thing: "Look, we totally didn't illegally download the music on that game we're going to sell you. Yes, people actually had to pay US to even play the songs. How did you know?"

And in a few minutes the Beta will come to an end. Luckily, another one is starting in a few days and the game is just two-and-a-half weeks away. The latter though makes me a bit anxious, as there are still A LOT of little things slowly chipping away at my enjoyment.

I wouldn't mind the game to be pushed back a week or two to add another layer of polish.
Some more fine-tuning for camera, GUI and especially the HUD.
Some more HUD options to declutter the screen.
Some more music options (and better music).
A way to turn off the tutorial missions and switch the voice actor to someone of an age that can actually make the words sound authentic (yes, maybe that voice actor is actually the winter sports equivalent of Bob Burnquist or Laird Hamilton and thus more than authentic, but the voice just feels wrong in regard to the words it's saying).
Control Tweaks.

There could be a LOT of improvement done to make this even better than it already seems to be.

[JuarezLT-]

Nahh release in 2 of December and then they patch it no worries

[P4NCH0theD0G]

I`m on the fence about it, really. I know how little things can drive me crazy, like a splinter in your foot you forget about until you stand up again. But with the amount of time I've already sunk into the game so far... I do kinda want it now. It would be nice to know, tough, from what time the Beta Build was. Like three months ago, three days ago, some time frame to judge how much might have already been done to the game in the interim.

[P4NCH0theD0G]

A little Add-On to the

Geometry - Halfpipe, Half in, Half out

The Bad:

It doesn't happen a lot, but sometimes it feels like the game is juking you to the left and right (and mostly the wrong direction) when you're in that thin No Man's Land between the curve of the pipe and the flat top. Sometimes you also seem to adjust your body to the wrong angle, leading to crash in the pipe because your character suddenly angled as if to land on the flat. It doesn't happen often, but often enough to notice.

[B3N--]

I am totally agre with the GoPro camera feedback; that was my main fear when i have first saw it on reveal ; now i have try it, and my fears are confirm on that point.

the GoPro cam isn't usable in gameplay purpose at this state, way too shacky, i feel nauseous almost instantly.. That need some work; its a really great idea and that can be very fun..


The camera need to be more "stable" ; much more like the eyes of the rider; and the FoV need to be way higher (better environement awareness).

++

[exzeon]

I'm with you 100% on everything you've said.

Tricks

In addition to your complaints about the bad tutorials, tricks and controls etc I'm really hoping that we're able to re-map the controls for gamepads (I'm using a PS4 controller on PC) because right now I just find the mapping incredibly messy to the point of being frustratingly unusable

Tricks seem almost meaningless in this game even though you need them to complete challenges. There's no way to tell what tricks are capable of gaining the most points and the tricks/spins etc aren't even named! I don't want a huge pop up after I land telling me a performed a 1440 etc I should have it in the bottom left underneath my score for that jump!

Like you said - why are R2/L2 ollie AND grabs? who thought this would be a good idea? Ollie should always be X. Why is Down and Up on the L stick Roll when they should be Backflip and Frontflip? why are Backflip and Frontflip bound to the R stick when that should be used for grab selection ONLY (pressing down the R stick should be used for Tweaking). This mess of a system has you doing a very limited set of tricks - I'm sure I'm not the only one doing Backflip tailgrabs all the time or nosegrab frontflips because the flip and grab selection are on the same damn stick. To do a back flip and a different grab is VERY fiddly (holding R2 and release to ollie, hold the R stick down to back flip and then move the R stick to a different direction while holding R2/L2 to grab - what a mess!) and every time you'll only do one backflip because you haven't held Down on the R stick for long enough to do more. It's.... truly frustrating, and I just find myself doing whatever works to get points and that's really not that much fun.

I don't know if you've played the F2P game SNOW? but they have a really good control system. with SNOW you "pre-load" your spins and flips. So while approaching a jump you hold X for ollie and Down on the L stick for a back flip (the longer you hold it, the faster you will flip). The directions of the R stick are the variety of grabs you can do and L1 and R1 are to use left or right hand. L2 and R2 are used for left and right barrel rolls. Also while in mid air you have to control your body position for better landings, you can adjust your flips with the L stick or opposite barrel roll button in case you've under or over rotated - in Steep there is no way to control landings, it lands it for you or you bail, which isn't much fun.

Like I said - I really hope we'll be able to re-map controls like you can for keyboards

And as a lot of other people have said - why does grinding not exist in this game?? I'm really baffled by this :/

Camera

I agree mostly with what you said about the camera, too. But for me personally I had a lot more problems.

There are only 3 camera options when playing: Ride, First Person and Exploration.

First Person and Exploration are fine because I don't really use them but the Ride camera is a complete mess. The way the camera follows the rider seemingly at random moving from right to left whenever it wants or at ground level or above is nauseating at times (even re-spawning in the same place, with the same stance and going the same direction the camera will randomly be on the left or right whichever it decides??) and there are multiple times where you can't even see where you're going because the camera wants to do it's own thing or what it thinks is the best, if you're travelling from left to right or right to left across the mountain the camera will often be facing directly at the mountain and you can't see where you're going and you can't change it unless you use the Exploration camera but holding down L1 all the time is NOT useful. It just seems to be at odds with the terrain most of the time which has caused me physical pain in the way I find myself leaning my head left or right while playing because the camera is completely unnatural and after a couple hours of playing I have a lot of pain in my shoulders and neck.

I would love to have a camera position that stays behind the rider or just off to the left or right and doesn't try to act like a camera drone being operated by a drunk person. If you look at the F2P game SNOW, or all the other winter sports games over the last 15 years. Look at the Tony Hawk games and the EA Skate games. They all have excellent camera options (behind the rider or off center, being able to choose how close or far the camera is etc). And it never moves from there! which is good! This would also be helpful for completing challenges where you're trying to follow the best route - when the camera is doing whatever it wants it's really hard to aim yourself towards a specific place! I would love to have these options in Steep because it's actually painful for me to play after an hour or so!

HUD

At first I was horrified by how cluttered the screen was (oh Ubisoft, you love filling our screens with useless things that don't have enough options of being turned off!) but once you complete the terrible tutorial things and get on with the game everything cleared up and all you get are a few situational control hints like when you're walking it shows you in the bottom right corner which controls for binoculars, time of day, and it shows your level in the top right and that's it. I was really surprised by this and it was one of things I was most happy about.

I'm really hoping that Ubisoft will engage with Beta players and fix some of these things, as you said I wouldn't mind if the game were delayed a little to fix some of the worst things but we shall see - I'm holding off on my pre-order for now.

[Fruitarian]

Speechless..

Annecy, here's your man. Superb, thorough, in-depth feedback. I've been over it all before, but couldn't support your impressions more.

I'm also left missing it, and feeling very positive.

We should hook up on PS4 P4NCH0theD0G .

[Hamppu123]

WOW! I hope they read this.

[NowiS4Asskick]

Hi there!

Am i the only one that misses tricks in the wingsuit mode? (Like in "Skydive: Proximity Flight")

btw i agree with all the other things mentioned in the earlier posts...great work!