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  1. #31
    Reserved just in case!
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  2. #32
    PowerSenpai's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by LKHERO Go to original post
    Hi everyone,

    Just a little background to confirm I'm not some random: Hi all, I'm a Priestge 2 Orochi and have played probably over 300 duels (including Custom) in the beta on and off stream. My win rate after the beta finished was 82%, having encountered and played a lot of great players who were humble enough to help me train. Thanks for the close duels everyone! I streamed the vast majority of my playtime on my Twitch, and previous to this beta I played in the December Technical Test.

    With that said, I'd like to write a piece on the Orochi that might be classified as advanced tips. Since the guide here is already really spectacular, I'd like to expand on a few things that are not covered, and talk about some matchups.

    The format of the next few sections will be as follows:
    • Mindset, challenges and playstyle
    • Tools, mix-ups and attacks
    • Matchup analysis vs. other classes


    Mindset and challenges
    Before I go crazy in this section, I want to first point out that most of these are my opinions strictly from a dueling perspective. I've played against many players ranging from all different skillsets, but I mainly focused my attention on dueling against the best players this game has to offer. I'm competitive in nature and enjoy a good challenge, even if things the game can be frustrating at times. The only way to get better is to face better opponents than you, be humble, and learn why you're losing by asking them. This is how you build a competitive circle of like-minded players, and how you will naturally expand your skills as a duelist. I strongly recommend that players follow this mindset, especially when you have the Orochi as there are many challenges ahead of you at the higher levels.

    When I mentioned challenges, I'm referring mainly to class matchups. As with all fighting games that have asymmetrical class designs, there are bound to be favorable and unfavorable matchups. Now, don't get me wrong: Skill is a huge factor in this game just like every deep/high-level/esports fighting game. A good player with solid mechanics and a good foundation will be able to take games from a poor player with a class that would be considered favorable in a matchup. At the same time, there will always be instances where certain matchups will seem like a struggle compared to others. This, often-times can shift around according to player playstyle and skill, but most of the time I firmly believe that certain classes by design are stronger when fighting certain class. I will expand on this further below.

    The first thing I want to talk about here is playstyle. One of the things that greatly separates players whenever they pick up a class is how they play them vs. how they're intended to be played. For example, Orochi is a highly-mobile "assassin" class that focuses on counter-attacking. Sure, this is a nice pitch and all, but what does it really mean? For me, it means the following:

    • The class has fast dashes and responsive movement
    • The class has multiple attacks built with "evasion" in their movement e.g. Storm Rush
    • The class has a deflect that can instantly punish attackers a well as having a parry
    • The class inflicts high damage when they're able to connect
    • The class has good mix-ups e.g. feints and cancels


    If you enjoy these things about the Orochi, let's continue onto the next part of the discussions which will be talk about aggressive and defensive playstyles. For me personally, I fit in the aggressive archetype. I like dictating the tempo of the fight, I actively use a large toolbox (more on this in a sec) of mix-ups, and I like the mobility. When you're fighting me in a duel, I'm pretty much always pressing buttons. Whether this is is to find ways to fake out a player so I can exploit their defenses, or to bait out attacks. Regardless of what I'm doing to the opposing player, I'm transforming openings into big damage whenever the opportunity presents itself. For the purposes of this guide, I will be primarily speaking from this archetype since it is my preferred fighting style.

    The other playstyle I want to talk about here is the defensive archetype. In general, this is how Orochi is intended to be played. He's fast, sure, but he does stuff that makes the player want to attack. His health pool isn't the greatest, so what he's looking for here is the ability to poke enough at the opponent that he commits to attacks that exposes him to big damage from the Orochi. Remember, Orochi can really capitalize on someone's mistakes with his general toolkit, so being able to bait out a heavy into a parry translates to a massive health swing in the Orochi's favor. The defensive playstyle of the Orochi will be a more docile approach in the duel, but don't confuse this will being slow. Just because he's not pressing buttons doesn't mean he'll be an easy opponent. In fact, I would argue that he's even more dangerous becasuse there's less chances he'll be caught exposed or over-extended.

    Lastly, I want to talk about shifts in playstyle that all high-level Orochis have to adapt to. As you fight any specific opponent, you either have to turn it up a notch (always turn it up) and adapt quickly if you want to stay on top of your opponent. Since I'm an RTS player mainly, there's a great phrase that I want you guys to remember: When ahead, stay ahead. When it comes to dueling with the Orochi, this means that as you play an opponent, you're always looking to expand on the mental game. What this means is that you always need to keep your opponent on his toes, and the only way you're going to be able to do that is by being fluid in your playstyle and utilizing more tools from your toolbox. This means that you need to shift from aggressive to defensive if things are not working out, or being able to explore more mix-ups or baits to get your opponent to open up. What does this mean really? I'll explain below.

    The Immortals. They failed our king's test, and a man who fancies himself a god feels a very human chill crawl up his spine.

    Tools, mix-ups and attacks
    As you probably already read a billion times by now, I keep mentioning this magical toolbox that the Orochi has. No, this is not a physical thing that he has in his back pocket, but more of a mental one where he can pull it out and beat his opponents over the head with it. That's right, I'm talking about all the options and abilities he has that "tests" your opponent and probes his playing ability. This means that in the first opening moves of the duel, you're looking for patterns, reaction times, playstyle, knowledge of the matchup, and generally just game sense. If this was StarCraft, I'm scouting my opponent and gathering data. If I manage to probe hard enough, he's going to just fall over and die. However, it must be said and said again that while you're getting reads on your opponent, a good opponent is going to get the same knowledge from you. Studying in this case, goes both ways.

    Now that you're in the actual match, let's examine some of the tools of our trade shall we? This part might get long, but please bear with me. As an example, I'll just bullet point some of the typical things I like to do in a duel. Keep in mind that at the end of the day, if you're not doing damage, you're not winning the duel. Therefore, all of your tools must be designed to do damage itself, to bait reactions, or to force bad decisions so you can get damage in.

    How I'm using certain terms:
    • Cancel/Feint - Stopping the attack animation before it fully executes
    • Empty Dash - Dashing either to the side or towards the opponent and entering a neutral state
    • React - Purely reacting to the opponent's behavior, strict timing
    • Bait - Waiting for the opponent to execute an expected behavior so you can react with a counter solution
    • Predict - You download your opponent's behavior so you execute a counter solution before he even does as a way to intercept
    • Reset - Enter a neutral state so you can re-engage your toolbox


    My general toolbox:

    Neutrals:
    Mixed light attacks --> Reset
    Mixed light attacks --> Heavy attack Feint --> Bait
    ..etc

    Heavy:
    Heavy attack --> Bait --> Heavy attack
    Heavy attack Feint --> React
    ..etc

    Zephr Slash:
    React --> Side-step Zephr Slash --> Reset
    Dash in Zephr Slash --> Reset
    Dash in Zephr Slash --> Guard Break
    Side-step/Dash in Zephr Slash --> Light attack chain
    ..etc

    Riptide Strike:
    React --> Riptide Strike --> Reset
    Riptide Strike --> Predict --> Heavy attack
    Riptide Strike --> Heavy attack Feint --> Bait
    ..etc

    Storm Rush:
    React --> Storm Rush --> Top light combo --> Reset
    Storm Rush --> Cancel
    Storm Rush --> Delay cancel
    Storm Rush --> Delay, release
    Storm Rush --> Cancel or Delay cancel --> Empty dash
    ..etc

    Dash/Side-step:
    Empty Dash --> Reset
    Empty Dash --> Guard Break --> Top heavy attack
    Empty Dash --> Mixed neutrals
    Empty Dash --> React --> Riptide Strike
    Empty Dash --> Heavy, feint --> React
    Empty Dash --> Predict Guard Break --> Top light combo
    Empty Dash --> Zone Attack
    Empty Dash --> Storm Rush series
    ..etc

    This might look a little confusing at first, and at first glance it doesn't look like much, but I promise you it will make sense at the end once you start mixing all of it together.

    For example, let's take this recent clip from a game I played vs. a Prestige 1 Kensei.

    Let's see if I can sum up some tools used here:
    • Empty Dash --> Zone Attack
    • Storm Rush --> Cancel
    • Empty Dash --> Reset
    • Predict --> Riptide Strike --> Reset
    • React --> Deflect --> Light, top light
    • Storm Rush --> React --> Cancel --> Top light combo
    • More Empty Dashes
    • Switch stance --> Predict --> Storm Rush
    • React --> Parry --> Top ilght combo
    • Predict --> Riptide Strike


    For the purposes of explaining, I will talk about Neutrals and Heavies first, before moving onto "evasion" style attacks such as Riptide Strike, Storm Rush, Zephr Slash and Empty Dashes. Keep in mind that Empty Dash is my own term, and doesn't exist in the Orochi moveset. It's simply a neutral dash, either to the side, away or towards your opponent. When I say neutral dash in this case, I mean that you dash and then let all your frames cool before you perform an action. Oh, and I added the ..etcs in there to symbolize that there's more combinations that you can do, and once you start mixing in Storm Rush combos with Empty Dashes, you can literally pull from a million different combinations of things to do.

    Before we go any further, I want to touch upon some early terms I used in this section. I spoke of reacting, baiting and predicting. A lot of the time as a counter-attacker, you react a lot to the opponent. However, a lot of what I do with my playstyle is that I like to bait once I have an idea of what my opponent's attack patterns. If they're predictable, I will start integrating prediction attacks ino my own game to hopefully catch them off-guard. This is why you hear terms in the fighting community like "downloaded", because if completely analyze your opponent's play, then you can pretty much beat them flawlessly. The faster you can do this, the more it highlights that your opponent's limited toolbox and inability to adapt. Every player is guilty of this at some point or another, whether it's stubbornness or just overconfidence that the same thing will work every time. Since this is someone I've played many games against previously, I started to analyze their attack patterns and adapted to them. This is why you see me throwing predicted attacks of my own, even though my opponent didn't exactly do what I wanted him to. The key to a successful mix-up game is to slowly introduce new elements of your toolbox as the match continues. This assures all kinds of unpredictable patterns to keep your opponents' guessing at all times. In turn, this stresses their mental ability and keeps them on their toes or just crumble under the weight of your mix-ups game.

    Light and Heavy attacks:
    I'll start by saying that I don't like using too many neutral attacks or heavies with the Oroshi. I don't think the class necessarily fits into the pattern of attacking a lot directly in the face of the opponent. While mixed, multi-direction light attacks can be useful, they can easily be blocked by an experience player and punished harshly if used heavily. The only time I really like to throw in a combo is if my opponent demonstrates the inability to block multi-directionally, and this is rare in high-level play. As for heavies, throwing out heavies in attempts to drive off overly aggressive players is perfectly viable, especially since they have more range and stopping power than the lights. Orochi has one of the fastest overhead heavies in the game and you can delay your heavies to bait your opponents in thinking they can come in and attack you. Often times, when executed correctly, you will stop them dead in their tracks or you trade damage favorably.

    The odd-ball out here is the zone attack, which deserves its own mention. The first thing you notice when you perform the zone attack is that it has a pretty nice frontal cone that hits directly in front of you. However, while it can hit side-steppers and comes out really quickly, it also does mediocre damage and drains half of your stamina. You really want to mix these attacks into your skill repertoire because it allows you to do decent damage out of the blue without having to commit to more predictable attacks.

    Zephr Slash and Riptide Strike:
    For the most part, Zephr Slash should mainly be used as the side-step variant and only on reaction. If your opponent is throwing out overhead lights, heavies, guard breaks, or other telegraphed attacks that can be dodged, Zephr Slash will be able to deal a small amount of damage and get you out of harms way with little or no consequence. Again, these are mainly used on reaction and should not be used as a predictive or baiting measure. Overuse of this ability as a side-step without reaction will be telegraphed quite convincingly in front of your opponent and easily punished. As for the dash-in variant of the Zephr Slash, this should only be used if you're trying to surprise your opponent or trying to chase someone who likes to back-dash a lot. The reach is superb and it can definitely reach out and surprise opponents who thought they were safe. Again, take extra precaution on this ability because overuse will see it parried from a mile away and punished hard.

    Riptide Strike is one of my favorite abilities for a number of reasons but its use is very specific. I primarily use it as a reactive tool against opponents who like to press buttons, either because they're aggressive, over-eager or likes to guard break a little too predictably. However, I like to throw out the random prediction every now and then because I'm confident that I analyzed their attack patterns and the situation at that time "looks" like a good time to attack me. Basically, you have to put yourself in the opponents' shoes at the time: Does the Orochi look vulnerable enough for a straight on attack? If the answer you think is yes, then a Riptide Strike is a perfect way to say no, you just lost a couple of bars of health while the built in evasion prevented any return damage. Not just that, but you can follow up with another heavy which can be delayed for a bait, or feinted for a setup parry or a clean reset.

    Storm Rush and Empty Dashes:
    Where do I begin? The combination of Storm Rush and Storm Rush cancels is the bread and butter of Orochi movement. Movement is king for the Orochi because it allows him to control the tempo of the game, bait out bad decisions and counter-attack with real man damage. This is why for Storm Rush, you can literally do a billion things when used in conjunction with your regular dashes and side-steps. It gives you space to breath, let's you re-collect your tools, and helps you punish the opponent really hard if he's not prepared.

    Storm Rush itself can be used in many different ways:
    -You can let it rip as normal to punish any form of over-commitment. Storm Rush has built-in evasion due to the back-dash, hits with a heavy attack that can lead to a free two-hit overhead light combo, and can bring you closer to the opponent to start a mix-up game like a Guard Break into a free top heavy. Since you're so mobile, you can control the distance that you initiate this attack to give your opponents less time to react.
    -You can delay the attack by holding it down and then letting it go to throw off your opponents' timing. This also allows you to enter the fight without running into your opponents' attacks so you don't get interrupted and can strike safely while they're still in recovery frames.
    -You can cancel it immediately but still show the stance to your opponent so it forces a guard direction. This, in combination that you can mix the direction of your Storm Rush will always keep the opponent guessing.
    -You can cancel it after a few steps so you can gain a few steps on the opponent while potentially juking an early parry or over-eager response. If you do this close enough to your opponent, you can end up close enough to execute a Guard Break of your own to really surprise the opponent.
    -You can cancel it after a delay, which frankly, can just screw with the opponent's timing if he's trying to block or parry it.

    When you mix Storm Rush in with your regular dashes, you become a whirlwind of confusion. As you can see above, your empty dashes have tons of options once you're in combat distance of your opponent. For example, you can go anywhere from dash in for a surprise guard break, or bait out an attack into the Storm Rush series, or just face check into the enemy and wait for a response. The end result should look something like this, while at the same time getting your own parody on YouTube.



    Stamina management
    Lastly, but arguably more importantly, I would like to touch upon good stamina management. Everything; all your attacks, feints, dashes and mix-ups count for nothing if you don't have a good guage on how to use your stamina. Almost all of your mix-ups that require any of the Storm Rush series requires stamina to execute. The same applies to any of the attacks that you feint, and when used in conjunction with regular attacks, you might find yourself running low at times. The most dangerous thing that can happen to an assassin is not being able to move and have their ability to attack neutered. This is exactly what happens if you become fatigued, so take extra care that you're not over-committing if you're running low on stam. Always watch the meter and manage it correctly as you're running your mix-up game. The stamina meter is your lifeline, even more so than the health bar due to how swingy the damage you can personally inflict. Remember, if you need to take a breather to let your stamina recharge, you have the movement tools to be able to. Don't get greedy.

    Match-up Analysis
    Stay tuned for class match-ups coming soon! Those are coming along, but it takes quite a bit of writing!
    Nice stuff man, you should put this as it's own thread as well, so it becomes more visible for people to see!
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  3. #33
    Sure, I made its own thread I'll still mirror everything into this one as well.
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  4. #34
    I'm sorry, but Orochi is ********. Try playing against a simple lvl 2 bot and EVERY SINGLE side attack is unblockable? NO they're not dodge attacking, just simple back to back side attacks are landing EVERY time. Totally unblockable. My timing is fine because I've done it millions of times against other characters. How is this possible?
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  5. #35
    Originally Posted by Rival Son Go to original post
    I'm sorry, but Orochi is ********. Try playing against a simple lvl 2 bot and EVERY SINGLE side attack is unblockable? NO they're not dodge attacking, just simple back to back side attacks are landing EVERY time. Totally unblockable. My timing is fine because I've done it millions of times against other characters. How is this possible?
    There are dozens of threads complaining about Orochi, w/o judging if they deserve to be there, but instead of posting there or making your own thread you post under not one but two in one massive and well written "How to play Orochi"-Guides that you are beaten by side attacks? I really hope i´m not the only one seeing the irony here
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  6. #36
    Originally Posted by LupusYps Go to original post
    There are dozens of threads complaining about Orochi, w/o judging if they deserve to be there, but instead of posting there or making your own thread you post under not one but two in one massive and well written "How to play Orochi"-Guides that you are beaten by side attacks? I really hope i´m not the only one seeing the irony here
    I get you, just getting very frustrated, and hoping for a reasonable explanation from people here, who seem to understand the character..
    But I can't see anything in the guide as to why these are un-blockable?
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  7. #37
    Tested with a Lvl 2 Orochi. All the side attacks are block - and parryable, depending on your reaction time and not taking connection issues into account. Even if you missed the first in a chain you should be able to block / parry the second or third hit. Played with Orochi too, so i guess blocking with another not assassin-hero should come a bit easier.
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  8. #38
    Jarl.Felix's Avatar Banned
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    Lightning Strike ?

    Yet, you wrote all this stuff and not a single word about Lightning Strike which in my opinion is mega strong. What about it ? how to counter, how to play, ? I`m curious.
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  9. #39
    PowerSenpai's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by SirFelix87 Go to original post
    Yet, you wrote all this stuff and not a single word about Lightning Strike which in my opinion is mega strong. What about it ? how to counter, how to play, ? I`m curious.
    You mean riptide strike you mean? It is properly mentioned under the special moves section, and explained. None of us who wrote it found the move to be particularly useful in our playstyles though.
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  10. #40
    Riptide Strike has good surprise value against newer players who rarely see it, but against experienced players it's very situational, it basically relies on them going for a long range heavy where the backward step will take you just out of range.
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