Let us fight for honor and not just for exp! | Forums

[DrExtrem]

For backdoor murder you mean, right? :P

hey ... "whatever floats your boat" and "dont ask, dont tell".

lemming trains are powerful indeed - they are in every game. but especially in dominion, they can easily be countered. if the enemy group gangs up and builds lemming trains, concentrate on the other objectives and kill creep. in this case, they dont really get player kills and can only hold one objective. since the teasms are usually inconsistantly build up, slower heros would fall behind faster ones. this would split up the team and open up a weak spot, that can be exploited. if they chase single teasm members in groups, you have the advantage when it comes to capping and slaying creep.
at some point, the enemy teasm is forced to split up and drie you out of a cap. if that happens, run away from them or start a counter-gang.

brawls, duels and the 4vs.4 brawl (cant remember the name), trying to gang up is only possible, if you are playing a fast class, that can outrun its paired duel-enemy. even if you can outrun your enemy, it is very likely, that he/she will either follow you (and finds your unprotected backside) or gang up with a team mate.

by the looks of it, it is relativly difficult to build lemming trains in certain modes, while it can hamper even hamper the lemmings in others.

if everything fails, counter-gang ...


however ... there is a simple way to dscourage lemming trains and ganging up ... just increase the friendly fire damage and introduce penalty points for hurting/killing group members. this would make gangs less aggressive, because players would have to fight with more caution.


btw... i demand, that the term 'experience' in this game is substituted by 'honor'! we gain honor and not experience ...

[CaptainPwnet]

hey ... "whatever floats your boat" and "dont ask, dont tell".

lemming trains are powerful indeed - they are in every game. but especially in dominion, they can easily be countered. if the enemy group gangs up and builds lemming trains, concentrate on the other objectives and kill creep. in this case, they dont really get player kills and can only hold one objective. since the teasms are usually inconsistantly build up, slower heros would fall behind faster ones. this would split up the team and open up a weak spot, that can be exploited. if they chase single teasm members in groups, you have the advantage when it comes to capping and slaying creep.
at some point, the enemy teasm is forced to split up and drie you out of a cap. if that happens, run away from them or start a counter-gang.

brawls, duels and the 4vs.4 brawl (cant remember the name), trying to gang up is only possible, if you are playing a fast class, that can outrun its paired duel-enemy. even if you can outrun your enemy, it is very likely, that he/she will either follow you (and finds your unprotected backside) or gang up with a team mate.

by the looks of it, it is relativly difficult to build lemming trains in certain modes, while it can hamper even hamper the lemmings in others.

if everything fails, counter-gang ...


however ... there is a simple way to dscourage lemming trains and ganging up ... just increase the friendly fire damage and introduce penalty points for hurting/killing group members. this would make gangs less aggressive, because players would have to fight with more caution.


btw... i demand, that the term 'experience' in this game is substituted by 'honor'! we gain honor and not experience ...

That would be such a bad idea though. Waaaaaaaay too much troll potential if they did that. Would be so harmful to the game in the long run.

[DrExtrem]

That would be such a bad idea though. Waaaaaaaay too much troll potential if they did that. Would be so harmful to the game in the long run.

how exactly could this be misused? if there is a penalty for constantly hurting team members, it discourages lemming trains - i guess we can agree with that. the only trolling potential i see, is that teammembers could deliberately walk into my swing, while i am duelling an enemy.

ok ... i see potential for misuse - but only a very limited one. trolls always fibnd ways to troll ... an easier way to troll the own team would be, to just run around the battlefield, while spamming wrong enemy positions and "jumping on swords". with the limited number of players per team, every offensive action counts.

if lemming trains, zerging and ganking become viable tools and acceprted tactics, the games core gets corrupted. trolling on the other hand will never be accepted by a community. trolls are a minority in gaming - people using cheap tactics and chease? sadly, lot of people do it. in addition, you can always ban trolls without backlash from ther community. in fact, thre community will cheer for every banned cheater/troll. it gets difficult, when you start to sanction people, using "legit" tactics.


from a gameplay point of view, it would make a 1vs2-3 more challenging. if all participants are at full health, the advantage is cleal but atm, the outnumbering side can spam attacks, without thinking too much. atm, the tiny bit of friendly fire is neglectable. this makes it more difficult to block chokes .
with full friendly fire, the outnumbering side would haave to think about positionung and from which side, they need to swing. if i am standing left to a team member, swinging from right should be a bad idea by nature. in addition, it would add realism.

i am working on a list with possible flaws ... i hope, that i will be able to participate in the closed beta or my list wil be reduced to possible general problems.

[CaptainPwnet]

No, you just simply have people attacking their own teammates on purpose. You may ask why someone would do that. But that's why I said it's troll potential, they don't need a reason except that they may find it amusing or fun. Or maybe you Stole a kill from them and they are butthurt. But it doesn't matter, having any more FF damage or increased ability for players to kill other teammates would kill the game.

Then you say, well make it so you can report those players so UBI can take corrective action against them. But all that will do is hurt the player base in the long run. Not to mention it would be super easy to just make it look like you're killing your allies accidentally while trying to attack other players in outnumbered situations. Then there is also those people just don't give a **** about others and will still just attack with reckless abandon trying to kill enemies and not care about hitting/killing allies. Can't even really ban players for any of this anyways cause UBI made it a part of the game in this situation. You could even have people who would intentionally get in your way as you attack so you hurt/kill them and then receive penalty points as you described.

This is why it is just better in all respects to leave FF as is.

[DrExtrem]

but it already is possible to kill teammates ...

friendly fire is aktive AND doing a certain amount of dmg.


trolls can be reported and banned - its a question of policy. team killing should be sanctioned by the game itself. lockout timers work wonders and not only for trolls. i saw multiple videos on youtube, where players were killed by kill gready, overzealous teammates, who swarmed an enemy and did not gave a flying **** about who they might hit.

- team-dmg to 100%
- dmg done to team members gives negative reknown/steel/xp
- team killing is sanktioned by restricting the teamkiller to sparring-modes (pure private bot-matches)
- trolls and repeated team killing leads to a ban.

all points should easily be implemented and would idealy lead to better awareness on the battlefiesd, more duels and coordinated fighting.

[CaptainPwnet]

No, still very very bad idea. All of your points are countered by the fact you can purposefully get yourself killed by a teammate by getting in their way. You couldn't even rightly ban them for this since they might just be new to the game and not know what is going on. Technically it's the killers fault anyways even though the other person may have intentionally gotten in your way, but there is no way to police such a situation. The only thing you could do to stop it as the player is disengage your target and try to put distance between you and your troublesome ally whether he just has no idera what's goin on or he is trolling in which case hw can just follow you and continue to ruin your day by "helping". Killing teammates as it is now is very rare. If you jack team damage up to 100% this game WILL die guaranteed. No one will want to play it, especially since it's now way too much of a risk to even get near an ally, much less fight together on a point. You would hinder your team by trying to work together, and also incur negative penalties.

Some people may still enjoy the game, but good luck finding any new players to stick with your game after a single day of playing with your ideas. It would be troll city, and even when it isn't troll city then you will have new players getting killed by teammates by accident screwing the vets over giving them penalties. Vets getting pissed off at new players for letting that happen and some of them turning to trolling to make sure that new player never comes back.

[DrExtrem]

No, still very very bad idea. All of your points are countered by the fact you can purposefully get yourself killed by a teammate by getting in their way. You couldn't even rightly ban them for this since they might just be new to the game and not know what is going on. Technically it's the killers fault anyways even though the other person may have intentionally gotten in your way, but there is no way to police such a situation. The only thing you could do to stop it as the player is disengage your target and try to put distance between you and your troublesome ally whether he just has no idera what's goin on or he is trolling in which case hw can just follow you and continue to ruin your day by "helping". Killing teammates as it is now is very rare. If you jack team damage up to 100% this game WILL die guaranteed. No one will want to play it, especially since it's now way too much of a risk to even get near an ally, much less fight together on a point. You would hinder your team by trying to work together, and also incur negative penalties.

Some people may still enjoy the game, but good luck finding any new players to stick with your game after a single day of playing with your ideas. It would be troll city, and even when it isn't troll city then you will have new players getting killed by teammates by accident screwing the vets over giving them penalties. Vets getting pissed off at new players for letting that happen and some of them turning to trolling to make sure that new player never comes back.

in this case, friendly fire would need to go completely.

trolls hurt games, lemming trains do the same. without FF, kill stealing and stupid lemming trains will dominate the game - nobody likes it. since this chease is "legit" (what trolling is not and btw usdeless on ps4 / xbox), people will adapt and gameplay degenerate to pure hack and slash zerg rushing.guess what, people who get steam rolled every game by lemming trains, will leave too.

yeah ... both options are crap, because the gamers nowadays are crap. one part of the crap-gamers seem to have too much time and the need to kill other peoples time, by trolling and the other part tries to compensate lack of training with stupid behaviour to boost stats.

either way, the gameplay will suffer and people will go. but at least, trolls can be reportet and banned.

[Fotgki13]

I was thinking that it could be very good if let yoy die honorable at dominion.
I mean that when a team takes 1000 points as we know wins the game when they kill all the enemies.
As i played the alpha test i saw the winning team run all together to kill the last enemy.
ONLY at this part of domination and only if your are the last of your team alive let you fight for honor for 1vs1 fight.
Maybe the game could give you another chance and i mean if the winning team has for examples 4 claases alive and you are the last one if you win two battles of 1vs1 one of your team can revive

[CaptainPwnet]

in this case, friendly fire would need to go completely.

trolls hurt games, lemming trains do the same. without FF, kill stealing and stupid lemming trains will dominate the game - nobody likes it. since this chease is "legit" (what trolling is not and btw usdeless on ps4 / xbox), people will adapt and gameplay degenerate to pure hack and slash zerg rushing.guess what, people who get steam rolled every game by lemming trains, will leave too.

yeah ... both options are crap, because the gamers nowadays are crap. one part of the crap-gamers seem to have too much time and the need to kill other peoples time, by trolling and the other part tries to compensate lack of training with stupid behaviour to boost stats.

either way, the gameplay will suffer and people will go. but at least, trolls can be reportet and banned.

I disagree, the way it is now is completely fine. Really not sure what your problem is with it, FF is just enough right now to make it relevant. Minimal damage but it still causes hit stun so you have to play smart in outnumbered situations with your allies to make it work well. So it's just enough to get higher skilled players to think and coordinate with each other to be effective, but not so much that people are accidentally killing each other all the time and it's pretty impossible to effectively troll someone. Or at least it would be SUPER obvious that's what they are trying to do. I can easily tell when the 2 or 3 enemies trying to kill me are smart/skilled or not because it's super easy to deal with guys who constantly interrupt each other and attack all at once making blocking much easier.

If your problem is lemming trains(which i'm not sure what you are talking about here, I assume it's one person after another rushes in to die alone in succession?) Then that's the fault of the players not the game. If you mean zerging or roving gank squads then that is also super easy to handle, just split up and cap points wherever they aren't. The enemy team will eventually have to split up or lose. If your team is losing to this then again that is the fault of the players not the game.

As it is right now the game works better than I would have thought and it's great.

[DrExtrem]

you might disagree but that will not stop people from building lemming trains (google it) and 4vx the rest of the team.

it simply is too effective to spam heavy attacks with 2 or 3 players against a single enemy.