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  1. #21
    NOJ75's Avatar Junior Member
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    Originally Posted by Force58 Go to original post
    I'd love to run around the DZ and just kill AI/bots all day, and I'm sure a lot of others would as well. It beats the hell out what goes on in the DZ now, or at least from when 1.3 hit. Prior to 1.3 it was great for me. I left humans alone and they, for the most part, left me alone. I was able to venture from DZ01 to 06 without too much problem, but once 1.3 hit my days in the DZ were over. It isn't PvP in the DZ, far from it.
    Yep. Have to completely agree with you there. I literally just gave the DZ another chance. Mistake. Be far the least fun I've ever had in a game.

    By creating that environment, all Massive have succeeded to do is create a channel for people to deliberately ruin another persons fun. Plain and simple.
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  2. #22
    xPLAY3R1x's Avatar Senior Member
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    The Division ended up being one giant bait-and-switch which most gamers... Who are working adults in their 30s+... Do not like since we all pay our hard earned money expecting one thing, but what we got was something entirely different in the end.

    The bait-and-switch I am referring to is TD was marketed as a mainly ARPG, MMO-lite game which means the primary player base is going to be PVE / Co-Op / Solo players.

    However, since the TD has no real end-game content, Massive decided to focus all of their attention on the imbalanced PK they call the DZ. So, once the primarily PVP-averse player base realized this... They left.

    I believe, deep down, this is why a lot of people don't like the game, nor how Massive went about handling it because at its core, it's deceitful, and also the fact Massive and UBISoft made a ****-ton of money based on this unethical and even illegal (in most places) business practice. Good did not triumph over evil in this case.

    I also believe another reason why TD may be so divisive is because many of the more (mentally) mature players that were attracted to the game via false advertising are now being replaced by a lot of angry, young gamers who use the difficulty of the video games they play to define themselves since they don't have enough real life experiences to put video games into the proper context? Perhaps their real life experiences are negative, so they are taking the escapism to extreme levels?

    This isn't helped when the PK in the DZ encourages and rewards them to act out their negative power fantasies... Something they can't do in well-balanced and mainstream PVP games as other posters stated already.

    So, it could be a lot of factors, but the biggest one is Massive doesn't listen to, nor communicate properly with its community.

    This is not up for debate. This is fact.

    Massive appears to be in over their heads and listens to the wrong people (Youtube and Twitch) to try and balance their game when we all know that is a minority segment of their community as a whole. These two elements seem to be the Achilles Heel of TD, and why it is struggling to stay alive past it's one-year anniversary in March, 2017.
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  3. #23
    Originally Posted by R1_DMG_LLC Go to original post
    The Division ended up being one giant bait-and-switch which most gamers... Who are working adults in their 30s+... Do not like since we all pay our hard earned money expecting one thing, but what we got was something entirely different in the end.

    The bait-and-switch I am referring to is TD was marketed as a mainly ARPG, MMO-lite game which means the primary player base is going to be PVE / Co-Op / Solo players.

    However, since the TD has no real end-game content, Massive decided to focus all of their attention on the imbalanced PK they call the DZ. So, once the primarily PVP-averse player base realized this... They left.

    I believe, deep down, this is why a lot of people don't like the game, nor how Massive went about handling it because at its core, it's deceitful, and also the fact Massive and UBISoft made a ****-ton of money based on this unethical and even illegal (in most places) business practice. Good did not triumph over evil in this case.

    I also believe another reason why TD may be so divisive is because many of the more (mentally) mature players that were attracted to the game via false advertising are now being replaced by a lot of angry, young gamers who use the difficulty of the video games they play to define themselves since they don't have enough real life experiences to put video games into the proper context? Perhaps their real life experiences are negative, so they are taking the escapism to extreme levels?

    This isn't helped when the PK in the DZ encourages and rewards them to act out their negative power fantasies... Something they can't do in well-balanced and mainstream PVP games as other posters stated already.

    So, it could be a lot of factors, but the biggest one is Massive doesn't listen to, nor communicate properly with its community.

    This is not up for debate. This is fact.

    Massive appears to be in over their heads and listens to the wrong people (Youtube and Twitch) to try and balance their game when we all know that is a minority segment of their community as a whole. These two elements seem to be the Achilles Heel of TD, and why it is struggling to stay alive past it's one-year anniversary in March, 2017.
    How did the marketing make you think that it was a solo player game? any video I seen was of group play and of play in the DZ did show people turning on each other all before game release. I was actually surprised at how much solo play is in the game.
    As for the hate well this forum has been toxic from day one, got to say the most whining forum I have been in.
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  4. #24
    MIDJULIP's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by NOJ75 Go to original post
    Yep. Have to completely agree with you there. I literally just gave the DZ another chance. Mistake. Be far the least fun I've ever had in a game.

    By creating that environment, all Massive have succeeded to do is create a channel for people to deliberately ruin another persons fun. Plain and simple.
    Ya a broken game mechanic for sure, but I've left it since the first month and I don't miss it. Now that 1.4 is coming at least I can gear up without the DZ or having to rely on nonexistant group play.
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  5. #25
    sandpants's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Bravo2_0 Go to original post
    Having participated in the PTS, I can tell you, you're not getting a new game. None of your suggestions for adding content was added. This was massive's chance to be a real game changer and they didn't grasp it. They really could have made some drastic changes to add content but they didn't. They could have made a PvP arena but they didn't. All you're getting is a different TKK and TTBK and some more loot.

    So, all the defending of turf by folks in the game, you didn't help make the game bigger and better, you inhibited it's growth. What made me start this entire thread was why? Why are things like this? We all see the potential for this game. That's probably the only thing everyone will agree on. And I think everyone will agree the potential is not being lived up to. We all want a better game so why is it that we are so divisive towards one another? Why are you not focused on the developers for not delivering you a much more rewarding game that actually lives up to it's potential?

    This was your chance to make a difference and instead you focused on the little things like too much loot or easy mode rather than asking for a better DZ a bigger DZ a true PvP arena. You didn't keep on Massive for more content in the LZ. You stopped at the four hour boss respawn. Why not ask for Queens to be opened, Staten Island or the Bronx? This was your chance to make the game you thought The Division could be.
    Here's a different perspective on why the game is receiving a lot of controversy -

    because there are people on the forums, you included, who make a forum title for a specific subject and somewhere down the post they slip in a derailing topic like the quoted part of your OP. Why is this a problem? Because it stirs up a ****storm where people will argue about things they have no clue about and eventually lose sight of what the topic is about, many thanks to the OP who has little idea himself

    I was about to debate the points you made, but then immediately read through the BS of what this thread is. It's just the same bait-and-switch as you lot claim the game to be. I got baited by the title thinking this would be a genuine discussion but the reality is this is just a thread where people can vent in a "mentally mature way", which judging by the majority (the hard working late 30s or something) is just passive aggression masked as a discussion...

    FYI, the PTS was never meant to be a new game, it's entire purpose is to rebalance the gambling aspect of this game (I don't like gambling, but this is the underlying principle of all looters), and the moment-to-moment loop of the game (which is shooting stuff in the face, made more palatable for those who were not on the favorable side of the gamble). 1.4 was about the little things, if that's the word you want to reduce the fundamentals of a game to.

    Furthermore, slipping in "PvP arena" multiple times does not validate it as a thing that everyone wants. There are only some that want it. Not even the majority of the people who stuck to the DZ. And I am not saying the current state of the DZ is god send. In fact I warned all the way back in the Beta that this is what it would result to should they stick with how (a broad range of) things work. But the least sensible thing to do is once again go back down on your (Massives) promises and dismiss what the DZ was intended in favor of a run-of-the-mill PvP arena which literally any other game does and will do better.

    Nobody demanded content, because people have read the memo about 1.4 patch. Considering it will span roughly a month as a test on the PTS, expecting new content is hardly reasonable...
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  6. #26
    Originally Posted by R1_DMG_LLC Go to original post
    The Division ended up being one giant bait-and-switch which most gamers... Who are working adults in their 30s+... Do not like since we all pay our hard earned money expecting one thing, but what we got was something entirely different in the end.

    The bait-and-switch I am referring to is TD was marketed as a mainly ARPG, MMO-lite game which means the primary player base is going to be PVE / Co-Op / Solo players.

    However, since the TD has no real end-game content, Massive decided to focus all of their attention on the imbalanced PK they call the DZ. So, once the primarily PVP-averse player base realized this... They left.

    I believe, deep down, this is why a lot of people don't like the game, nor how Massive went about handling it because at its core, it's deceitful, and also the fact Massive and UBISoft made a ****-ton of money based on this unethical and even illegal (in most places) business practice. Good did not triumph over evil in this case.

    I also believe another reason why TD may be so divisive is because many of the more (mentally) mature players that were attracted to the game via false advertising are now being replaced by a lot of angry, young gamers who use the difficulty of the video games they play to define themselves since they don't have enough real life experiences to put video games into the proper context? Perhaps their real life experiences are negative, so they are taking the escapism to extreme levels?

    This isn't helped when the PK in the DZ encourages and rewards them to act out their negative power fantasies... Something they can't do in well-balanced and mainstream PVP games as other posters stated already.

    So, it could be a lot of factors, but the biggest one is Massive doesn't listen to, nor communicate properly with its community.

    This is not up for debate. This is fact.

    Massive appears to be in over their heads and listens to the wrong people (Youtube and Twitch) to try and balance their game when we all know that is a minority segment of their community as a whole. These two elements seem to be the Achilles Heel of TD, and why it is struggling to stay alive past it's one-year anniversary in March, 2017.
    Please, none of this personality assumptions of gamers in real life, judgeing by how they play a video game. No matter how aggressive and ganking a DZ rogue is, its really unethical to make assumptions about who they are when they are not online.

    Take me for example, I shoot every dog on sight in TD, yet I'm the biggest animal lover there is. The judgement over gamers real life has being going on ever since video games came out, esp violent ones, Lets just not go there.
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  7. #27
    sandpants's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by IKILLAUNOW03 Go to original post
    Please, none of this personality assumptions of gamers in real life, judgeing by how they play a video game. No matter how aggressive and ganking a DZ rogue is, its really unethical to make assumptions about who they are when they are not online.

    Take me for example, I shoot every dog on sight in TD, yet I'm the biggest animal lover there is. The judgement over gamers real life has being going on ever since video games came out, esp violent ones, Lets just not go there.
    You are barking up the wrong tree. Or rather pointlessly.
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  8. #28
    MIDJULIP's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by sandpants Go to original post
    You are barking up the wrong tree. Or rather pointlessly.
    +1 for the pun.
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  9. #29
    xPLAY3R1x's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Wombles-_- Go to original post
    How did the marketing make you think that it was a solo player game? any video I seen was of group play and of play in the DZ did show people turning on each other all before game release. I was actually surprised at how much solo play is in the game.
    As for the hate well this forum has been toxic from day one, got to say the most whining forum I have been in.
    The difference is a lot of gamers... Notice, I mentioned CO-OP above... Thought this was probably going to be like WoW, and other MMOs where there was a focus on PVE with tons of things to do in an open world. That isn't the case. So, when Massive forced CO-OP and PVE players (regardless, of solo or not) into the DZ where PK is the mode and not balanced PVP, this is what killed the game early on because there wasn't anything else to do except the story missions over and over and over again.
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  10. #30
    Hugo-FOU's Avatar Senior Member
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    Good post OP. And many good responses too.
    Now I don't want to play devils advocate too much, but Massive did say that this patch wasn't about adding content, but rebalancing. Re laying the foundations if you will, in order that they can begin again to build on them.
    Hopefully this is the plan. But if it is, it would be nice to know.

    How about a dev generated sticky thread entitled 'Community Content Suggestions For Future patches', where the devs list all the content that massive are 'considering' including.

    With regard to the debate of challenging difficulty, it's frustrating for myself as someone without the PTS, (console player), that I can't try it myself, as I'm seeing mixed reports and seemingly conflicting accounts.

    On the one hand there are members of this community who's judgement I am inclined to trust saying it's too much like 1.3, yet there are others, some of whom I also trust and some video footage that suggest it's actually ok.
    My guess is it's somewhere between.

    I'd like to know what the jump is like from hard to challenging. In 1.3 the problem for me is, (apart from loot), the jump is huge.

    Massive HAVE listened to the community, many changes HAVE been made to improve the game and we as a community HAVE had a good relationship with them.
    I think it's worth trying to preserve that.

    When they announced what they wanted for 1.4, it was exciting. They laid it all out so we could see what their plans were.
    Hopefully when they announce the release date for 1.4, we can get something similar.

    'This is what we've managed in the time available. This is what we're going to keep looking at. This is what we want to add in the future!'

    Finally, I'm not making excuses for them. I'm just trying to focus on the positives and remember that this patch is the beginning not the end.

    Thanks for reading.
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