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  1. #11
    Great article Bravo2_0 and yes this is a hostile forum with many view points. The reason so many are passionate is we can all see how great the game could be if reformed properly. Those who are arguing have loved the game and their characters.
    Sadly you are correct in saying Massive/Ubisoft are not listening, particularly on the DZ issue, evidenced by the latest Gear set which hands Rogue players a huge bonus, Massive have dismissed all DZ complaints and have awarded damages in the form a super suit to Rogues so they can hunt you all down.
    They have not listened and resolved plague issues like getting stuck on a ladder, behind a door, doors won't open for missions, etc etc.
    Have not listened when the player base pointed out most can not compete with NPC's who are bullet sponges, DZ NPC's are indestructible, players can not complete the incursions, UG challenge and Heroic levels, massive have responded by nerfing weapons and gear set bonuses making them even less effective than they already are.
    1.4 is a make or break point for a lot of players and massive have made some moves but it appears it may not be enough.
    Perhaps they are too comfortable with their hundreds of millions of dollars from sales and the movie deal and now do not have to care.
    I hope they try to come good on the promises to listen and trend the game in the direction the player base want.
    If they do not balance the game I will have a hard time staying on as I can do UG Hard level most times but can not compete at Challenge or Heroic mode on UG, the higher DZ levels or incursions.
    Unless the game changes and for the better it leaves little content that I can complete and while I love the game it annoys me that they sold me a dud in many ways, have not addressed plague issues with it upto now and have not delivered on the season pass content, it has glitches, lag, freezes, drops out and they have made some adjustments but nearly always player negative with gear sets neutered, weapons scaled down whilst the enemy are so powerful and take so much work to bring down.
    Bring back some simplicity like the early levels of roaming the untamed streets, finding info and rewards, bumping into rioters and having impromptu realistic street battles with simple weapons and skills with out copious amounts of bulldust. Reminiscing.......
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  2. #12
    Originally Posted by BrokenLance Go to original post
    that looked like it was fun to type.
    Yeah.....Wearing a re enforced tin foil hat has its advantages. Don't get me started on social engineering and the Color of Races fantasy.....

    "Black man, White man, Yellow man, Red man
    Must understand, The race is hu-man"
    Ice-T, Tip of the Iceberg.

    Off topic once again.....*sigh*
    Sorry
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  3. #13
    Originally Posted by Bravo2_0 Go to original post
    I've been gaming for over 35 years. Started online gaming with a Commodore 64. I've been a part of some great gaming communities. For nearly 20 years I have been a member of a community known as LIGS Long Island Gaming Servers. We started out in the late 90's with Counter Strike. We used to have lan parties every couple of months. Then we grew when Day of Defeat came out and we opened up a server for that. Soon it became ten servers. I was a lead admin overseeing all of the DoD servers. I made so many friends while gaming. We had our own forums and there was always a lot of good conversations going on.

    What I'm trying to get at is, I have never been a part of a game that elicits so much emotion either good or bad. Sure I've played some games that completely sucked and just put it away never to be seen again. Whenever I went to a forum, it was to seek advice on how to play better and you usually got a lot of good responses. Sure you had your 'git gud" people but for the most part, people are generally really helpful. So that's not the issue.

    The issue I see more and more of is the disdain towards the developers. World of Tanks and League of Legends were probably the two "saltiest" forums I was ever a part of. I gave up on League but I stuck out tanks for a few years. The thing I saw with WoT was the developers actually listened to the people who played the game. They would fly people out to Cyprus or L.A. just to hear feedback. And by no means is World of Tanks in any danger of losing their player base but still they engage the players and make changes accordingly.

    Is everyone happy? No. But at least you get the feeling you're being heard and things change because the majority of the players are asking for the change. Massive and The Division is a whole other level of animosity. I remember back in May one of the community managers said this was the most toxic community he had ever seen. Which set off a firestorm of backlash from the community. What he didn't realize was that since alpha and beta people had been telling Massive they need to change the design of the DZ, what we call gankers now, they called trolls. It was obvious way back then that Massive was not listening. Massive collectively put there hands over their ears to drown out the players point of view.

    What I have found in taking part in the PTS is that people are defending their turf like a pit bull. "Too much loot" "easy mode" not good for the game. On the flip side people happy with too much loot and happy being able to solo a mission. What the defenders, to me, have lost sight of, Massive as well, is the people who left the game. Games are supposed to be fun and yes I know fun is subjective. Yet, the very people testing the game are the people who have stuck it out since launch. That's why they are defending their turf. This is where Massive has failed by not taking charge, showing true leadership and vision to bring back players who have left. Even at the expense of pissing people off.

    When I say piss people off, I don't mean take away heroic. No I think they should have had levels that kept getting more and more difficult to the point you're getting whipped by a cat-o-nine tails as you run the mission. Some people like that... I mean they should have added so much content in the open world it would probably piss off the DZ fans but at the same time, we're all for TDM, PvP arena and whatever else makes PvP players happy. Just separate the PvP from PvE and be done with it.

    I think this has been Massive's biggest failing. Not separating the two and giving each plenty of content. Their vision of TD doesn't work.

    When massive asked us for suggestions to improve the game, they got a huge response from the players. That's like asking a kid what they want for Christmas. That whole idea of asking us how to improve the game by making suggestions was a non-starter. They never meant to add anything to this patch. That was a lot of false hope they gave us.

    http://forums.ubi.com/forumdisplay.p...eedback/page39 From page 39 onward was after the SoTG where they asked us to submit our ideas.

    "Hey, thanks for the well thought out suggestions and ideas. A lot of great stuff in here! I will compile it and forward it to the team.

    /gabelikes"


    Having participated in the PTS, I can tell you, you're not getting a new game. None of your suggestions for adding content was added. This was massive's chance to be a real game changer and they didn't grasp it. They really could have made some drastic changes to add content but they didn't. They could have made a PvP arena but they didn't. All you're getting is a different TKK and TTBK and some more loot.

    So, all the defending of turf by folks in the game, you didn't help make the game bigger and better, you inhibited it's growth. What made me start this entire thread was why? Why are things like this? We all see the potential for this game. That's probably the only thing everyone will agree on. And I think everyone will agree the potential is not being lived up to. We all want a better game so why is it that we are so divisive towards one another? Why are you not focused on the developers for not delivering you a much more rewarding game that actually lives up to it's potential?

    This was your chance to make a difference and instead you focused on the little things like too much loot or easy mode rather than asking for a better DZ a bigger DZ a true PvP arena. You didn't keep on Massive for more content in the LZ. You stopped at the four hour boss respawn. Why not ask for Queens to be opened, Staten Island or the Bronx? This was your chance to make the game you thought The Division could be.
    Word! 👍
    I've been gaming since the Commodore 64 too. I agree with everything you wrote. This truly could have been a fantastic game if the developers would have listened to the community from the beginning.
    As much as I hate to say this, but Massive has killed this game. There will be no one left playing by the time Last Stand is supposed to hit the shelves.
    And you're right! Players should go against Massive and not one another.
    Why don't we all direct our frustration at the developers?
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  4. #14
    Originally Posted by aldramelech Go to original post
    WOT and WOWS forums are indeed pretty hostile places sometimes and I would add AW to that list too but nothing like on this level for this game. I'm what some would call a hard core player, I have 1200+ in the game and 4 maxed out characters and yet I don't agree with the "hard core base". To me the games survival was paramount, difficulty and loot are things that can be tuned over time and more challenging content can always be added and probably will but what this was all about was the "base game", bringing players back and adding new ones, it was not about whether 1000 or so hard core players found it easy or not.

    What we have now is (from a gameplay point of view) no better then 1.3 and in some cases worse then 1.3 from the point of view of a new or returning player, the whole exercise has been a complete waste of time. In 1.3, geared up I feel powerful, in 1.4 as it is geared up I feel like wet tissue paper.

    What's the point in gearing up to get to WT4 and feel weak? Where is the bloody fun in that?

    I belong to a large multi national gaming group, many members bought The Division and all of them left, I am now the only person left playing and when asked by these people is it worth returning my answer will be no. What I will tell them is enemies are weaker but your correspondingly weaker, the game has not fundamentally changed, they just moved the goal posts.
    This is exactly how I feel.
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  5. #15
    Essentially your 3 main points are 1). The community is toxic 2). You want to separate PVE players from PVP players. 3). Massive doesn't listen to its community.

    You addressed Gankers so I already know what type of player you are. You were tired of getting loot stolen in the DZ so you told massive to make an arena which many people have already done and improve the LZ but they didn't so the community is spilt and arguing so you referenced a Dev calling us toxic.

    you want to separate the DZ because you aren't good at killing other players. It's as simple as that. Do you really just want run around and kill bots all day? Is that fun you?
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  6. #16
    Ground-Hugger's Avatar Senior Member
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    Simple question why aren't all those who love PvP and ganking nut playing TRUE PvP games? There are plenty of games out there that offer true PvP. My guess is that they are not GOOD enough to play these games and get there a$$es handed to them in games like CoD, Battlefield and others so there only way to get any form of satisfaction and self validation is to be able to back shoot and gang up on weaker groups and solo players in the DZ.
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  7. #17
    Force58's Avatar Senior Member
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    I believe the reason the community is so at odds with the game is that it HAD soooooo much promise. Then Ubisoft/Massive encountered one problem after the other. People loved the 1-30 experience and enjoyed the DZ in the beginning, but the problems became the games center stage, it was all that was being talked about.

    Over the course of the past 8 months I've submitted 12 trouble tickets, with the majority still outstanding. The biggest one is having to delete and re-install the game every time a new patch or DLC comes out, every single time!!!! Ubisoft claims its my internet connection, actually, they claim all my trouble tickets are the result of my internet connection. It's pretty insulting as I've had a conference call between Ubisoft and Comcast where they confirmed my internet and router/modem settings are optimized for THIS game.

    Games like this always boil down to 2 sides, the PvE'ers and PvP'ers, and it makes matters worse when the game is broke. It also makes matters worse when you can't call what goes on in the DZ "PvP", nowhere near it.

    By the time Ubisoft/Massive formally announced "the game is broke" most of the player base had left for other games. Since 1.3 was released my playtime has gone from 3-4 hours a day to maybe 30 minutes a month. The DZ was completely unplayable for me once 1.3 hit. Too many AI buff's for me to be able to compete.

    Then the announcement of the PTS and community team was made. It was all great talk, I was initially impressed and excited for 1.4. Then I started reading posts from all of you, the responses from Ubisoft/Massive, the subsequent weekly SOTG and patch notes, and got increasingly concerned that 1.4 would NOT be what they promised. They promised to bring back the experience we had when we were leveling from 1-30. Over the course of the past 4 weeks I've seen them make changes from one extreme to the other, I assume so they could find a happy medium, but if we end up with 1.3.1 it will have all been for naught. Based on Ubisoft/Massive's track record, I'll certainly NOT be holding my breath. I love this game to death, but have quit playing it until "it isn't broken anymore".

    Not many people like hearing this, but Ubisoft/Massive acknowledged it as well, that they were focusing on the opinions of the minority group of streamers in the beginning to drive the direction of the game. That will always lead to failure. Most streamers do NOT emulate how the rest of a player base play games. Most people don't have the time to put into a single game, but streamers typically get the best loot and advance quicker mainly due to the time they play. They complete content quicker, complain sooner, and then you have Ubisoft/Massive making changes that improve the lives of streamers, but do nothing for the majority player base but hold them back.

    I hope 1.4 ends up being what they promised 4 weeks ago. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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  8. #18
    Force58's Avatar Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=X3holy3;12003626 Do you really just want run around and kill bots all day? Is that fun you?[/QUOTE]

    I'd love to run around the DZ and just kill AI/bots all day, and I'm sure a lot of others would as well. It beats the hell out what goes on in the DZ now, or at least from when 1.3 hit. Prior to 1.3 it was great for me. I left humans alone and they, for the most part, left me alone. I was able to venture from DZ01 to 06 without too much problem, but once 1.3 hit my days in the DZ were over. It isn't PvP in the DZ, far from it.
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  9. #19
    Force58's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Make.My.Day. Go to original post
    Word! ��
    I've been gaming since the Commodore 64 too. I agree with everything you wrote. This truly could have been a fantastic game if the developers would have listened to the community from the beginning.
    As much as I hate to say this, but Massive has killed this game. There will be no one left playing by the time Last Stand is supposed to hit the shelves.
    And you're right! Players should go against Massive and not one another.
    Why don't we all direct our frustration at the developers?
    Good one. The time I directed my frustration at the dev's I got banned for 2 weeks for being too toxic. None of my posts were toxic to the point that I should have been banned, I was expressing my opinion of the current state of the game in a tone that I guess they didn't like. It was all true, and I guess I got a little bit of satisfaction when they finally announced it was broken a few months back. Ironic, huh!!??
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  10. #20
    Are you guys for real? Advanced AI? No one mentions underground, Its all DZ and LZ in majority of conversations. Underground is adding checkpoints, that alone is a game changer and will alleviate tons of frustration.
    Survival DLC is rumored to be true equal PVP,(uncomfirmed but word going around) We have so much to look forward to, Currently as it stands we only have half a game

    People are impassioned about this game with love or hate cause it was a big chunk of our lives, This game is a grinder. Avg dedicated player has over 500 hours in. Compared to a friend who finished one of the Tomb Raider games in one weekend
    I look at the list of all the players that left the Division and their attention span is nill, they play on avg, 2 different games a WEEK and if a game cant be finished within two weeks, they move on. . The Division is a game that takes time to master and unfortunately majority don't have time for that.
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